Al Stohlman Brand Damascus Medium Round Knife

[Phatdaddy]

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.ca/eflyer/1106RT/35010-05.aspx?countryid=998

I don't own one of these yet but was considering picking this up if it was classed as good quality.

I have never used one and would rather hear some of your thoughts if possible. I'm going there tomorrow.

Thank you.

[Frank]

I would save up another $25-$50 and purchase a good sharp knife from Bruce Johnson

The tools he has are sharp and tested true.

That's just my opinion

Frank

Edited June 4, 2011 by Frank

[WyomingSlick]

Well Daddy-O, I would say it's like the old saying about the proof being in the pudding. Take the knife for a test drive. The store should have some scrap leather and a workbench there where you can run it through it's paces. If you are not sure about how to go about that, refer to Al Stohlman's "Leathercraft Tools" book which I see is on half-price sale also. If you don't have a copy of that, then I can't begin to reccomend how much every leather worker should have that book. If you are uncomfortable about playing with sharp knives and/or you don't know what you are doing; then have the Tandy people demonstrate it's use for you. If you are impressed with the knife, then buy it. If not, pass it by. I know it is a pretty thing, but if it doesn't cut the mustard, or, in this case; the leather, then it is just another wall hanger.

Edited June 4, 2011 by WyomingSlick

[electrathon]

Well Daddy-O, I would say it's like the old saying about the proof being in the pudding. Take the knife for a test drive. The store should have some scrap leather and a workbench there where you can run it through it's paces. If you are not sure about how to go about that, refer to Al Stohlman's "Leathercraft Tools" book which I see is on half-price sale also. If you don't have a copy of that, then I can't begin to recommend how much every leather worker should have that book. If you are uncomfortable about playing with sharp knives and/or you don't know what you are doing; then have the Tandy people demonstrate it's use for you. If you are impressed with the knife, then buy it. If not, pass it by. I know it is a pretty thing, but if it doesn't cut the mustard, or, in this case; the leather, then it is just another wall hanger.

The problem with this is that Tandy sells their knives unsharpened. You will need to take it home and sharpen it. Then there are a lot of issues having to do with steel and hardening. Very few people would ever be able to tell the quality of the blade without extensive use. Even then, many would not be able to tell the difference Just look at how many people think ceramic blades are sharp. They only think that because they are going from a dull steel (likely crappy steel) to a medium sharp ceramic blade. Trade to a quality, sharp, steel blade and the difference is huge.

[WyomingSlick]

The problem with this is that Tandy sells their knives unsharpened. You will need to take it home and sharpen it. Then there are a lot of issues having to do with steel and hardening. Very few people would ever be able to tell the quality of the blade without extensive use. Even then, many would not be able to tell the difference Just look at how many people think ceramic blades are sharp. They only think that because they are going from a dull steel (likely crappy steel) to a medium sharp ceramic blade. Trade to a quality, sharp, steel blade and the difference is huge.

That is a pretty dammning statement...................................................................... All their knives? All their head knives? Round knives?

Yes, they sold some Osbourne round knives that needed final sharpening. But if you look at the reading of this one, it says " Looking for a blade that only needs stropping to keep an amzazingly sharp edge? " That would seem to indicate that the blade is pretty much ready to test drive to me. And that will be the initial test - to see how it good it is out of the box.

I have to admit that I don't see where it being damascus steel is much of an advantage in a round knife.

I suspect that it is more of a marketing ploy then there being any real need for it's use.

[electrathon]

That is a pretty dammning statement...................................................................... All their knives? All their head knives? Round knives?

Yes, they sold some Osbourne round knives that needed final sharpening. But if you look at the reading of this one, it says " Looking for a blade that only needs stropping to keep an amzazingly sharp edge? " That would seem to indicate that the blade is pretty much ready to test drive to me. And that will be the initial test - to see how it good it is out of the box.

I have to admit that I don't see where it being Damascus steel is much of an advantage in a round knife.

I suspect that it is more of a marketing ploy then there being any real need for it's use.

I was referring to round/head knives. They do have some other knives that are presharpened. I have looked at a few different round knives they have and all of them were between dull and less than sharp. The "Damascus" one I looked at was defiantly not as sharp as it needed to be. Properly sharpened, a round knife will be on par with a razor blade.

What Damascus steel is made from is stacks of hard and medium hard steel, forge welded together, folded and twisted. The patterns you see in Damascus is the result of the layering, folding and twisting. There are numerous ways of creating patterns, some of which are well known and some are secret. The purpose of the folding is that you end up with, on a microscopic level, a serrated knife. The "Damascus" knives Tandy is selling are laminated steel. It is forge welded together with a fairly thick center core. The center steel cutting edge has no serrations (look and you will easily see no twisting on the steel). As to the function of the blade it is only a steel knife with laminations on the outer side for pretty reasons (I do like the look). The blade has absolutely zero advantage from the "Damascus". This is also a very liberal interpretation of Damascus steel too, few knife makers will agree that it is actually Damascus due to the lack of folding. Tandy has not released (as far as I have been able to find out) the rating on the steel used in the core, so no telling on the quality on the blade (has anyone here bought one and analyzed the steel yet?).

The sharpness of the knife out of the box is not necessarily a reflection of the quality of the knife. The knife quality is a reflection of the steel used in it and properly tempering of that steel. You can easily sharpen junk steel to a razor edge. It will dull quickly. You may have a tough time sharpening a dull quality knife, but once sharp it will hold the edge for some time. The knife being dull in the box just means the company was too cheap to pay someone to sharpen it, not that is is low quality (although it is a hint to the workmanship if they did not even sharpen it).

[Phatdaddy]

Thank you all for your input. I was in the store today, I had a look at the knife, it wasn't what I would call dull, but also not comparable to a razor. The edge was similar to a new swivel knife blade, having the lines where it was ground, definitely not a polished finish. I didn't pick it up as I had already picked up more than I had gone in for. I still may, but i was hoping to hear from someone that had used/owned one.

[MADMAX22]

I dont know if it is similar to the other Stohlman knives they were selling but if it is I would say save some more money and go for something a little nicer. I am not saying they are bad. When they first came out I looked up the brand that this comes from and they deal primarily with kitchen knives of the medium ok range I guess you could call it. Better then some but by no means a really good steel.

I started with the regular stolhman knives and used those for a little while. The curved blade knife I still use occasionally for cutting various large chunks of leather but not for any type of detail work or for cutting out patterns. It is also a pain to sharpen. I bought a rose knife pretty soon after getting these and the difference was amazing. It actually help an edge for a good amount of time and was just all around such a better blade. There are several older knives that have amazing blades. They may be pricier but are worth the money. Many new knife makers make some darn good stuff also.

I agree to talk with Bruce johnson and have him set you up with a nice round knife.

[WyomingSlick]

I wince everytime I see that term: "sharp as a razor blade"! I have only one knife among my leatherworking tools that is as almost as sharp as a razor blade. Stamped on the blade is:

J.A. HENCKELS TWIN WORKS SOLINGEN, GERMANY which is a pretty respectable name among straight razors.

This knife I sharpen like anyone knowledgable sharpens a straight razor, except: I put a very fine microbevel on the edge as the last step. I don't want a true "razor edge" on it because it is not be used to cut wet hair, which is reatively soft compared to leather. A true "razor edge" is about as sharp as you can get with steel, but, it is inherently weak, which is of no concern when cutting hair. Such an edge will not stand up long when cutting leather - thus the micro bevel.

Why do you suppose that the stereotype of the old time barber is of him stropping his straight razors back and forth....back and forth... on a leather strop??? It is because that "razor edge" is a delicate thing and time consuming to maintain. It is much more efficient to have less than a "razor edge" and have to exert yourself al little bit more, than to be stropping, or/and honing your blades every time you turn around.

I use my straight razor for fine skiving. Period! The next closet to "razor sharp" are my regular skiving knives. They recieve a bit more of a micro-bevel as the final sharpening/honing step. And of course, the next step up the ladder is my head knife. And so on to the more utilitarian knives.

For those of you having a hard time with your knives - making and maintaining an edge - do a little research on the net - there is a lot of information there on the subject. One main thing to keep in mind always is - what is the ultimate purpose of the knife, and what is the best geometry for that purpose. Until you are clear in your mind about that, you are unlikely to reach satisfaction.

A sidenote here - an obsidian blade can be sharper than the best razor, but you don't see many leatherworkers using an obsidian blade. When I want/or need a razor edge, I turn to my x-acto knives since a blade damaged there is easily fixed by putting in a new one, stropping it a bit, and back to work.

And yes, Elctrothon, I am fully aware of what Damascus steel entails. And like I said before, I don't see that it being so, or even cosmetically being so, will contribute to it's use in cutting leather. In a sword,axe, or dagger, yes. Just not much impact use when attacking the old hide! LOL

[DCKNIVES]

I know a couple of makers that bought them and they are pretty much junk.First ,That isn't true Damascus, I work with true damascus almost daily, and the real stuff will hold an edge as good as most quality steels, properly heat-treated.A good quality round knife needs a good known steel, properly HTed , hard to get a good one mass produced at that price.Dave

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Damascus is a location, and it should be called pattern welded steel. It isn't always medium, and high carbon steel. I know of some billets that are high carbon and pure nickel for contrast.

I would say that these knives are using "Damascus steel" as a marketing ploy-look where they are made.

One of the top knife makers in the USA lives down the road from me in Henderson NV. He makes his own billets of pattern welded steel, and creates beautiful , and fully functional, blades with them.

[BillB]

Phatdaddy,

I think you did right by going and looking at the product. First off, I do not like product bashing. If it was not for Tandy we would never get new folks into leather crafts. Just like any product line, there are high end items and lower end items. Cost always has to come into the equation as to the value of an item. WyomingSlick did a good job on hitting on a number of topics one needs to consider when looking at a knife. One thing that was not touched on was the amount of usage the item would receive. I have been doing leather as a hobby for over 30 years and do not use the items like someone that is doing a business so my requirements are different than someone that is doing this for a lively hood. The best knife I have is one that was custom made for me 40 years ago out of Auto Suspension Spring Steel. The sharpest knife I ever used was a Gerber Stainless Steel Hunting knife which was hallow ground (concave bevel on both sides of the edge). It would hold an edge for a year, but had to go back to the factory for sharpening. In this case, it was as sharp as a razor since we did use it to shave with.

So here is my two cents: Figure out what you need, what you can afford, and what you plan to use it for, then go shopping and find the knife that fits your needs and not someone else.

BillB.

[cybertracy]

My first round knife was an earlier (3 years back) Stohlman from Tandy, and I've since moved on & spent more on a second. I would like to say I'm glad I bought the Stohlman first, I learned to sharpen it and may not have tried on a more expensive blade (it took me a few tries and varying techniques to get it as sharp as I wanted). I also probably would've cut off my hand with a bigger, sharper version until I fully understood how important it is to keep all appendages, pets and children BEHIND the blade in motion! I understand dull knives are more dangerous than sharp ones, but in my case that applied more when I used the blade correctly than when I was first learning. Sharpened correctly, and stropped often, I still grab the Stohlman to make straight cuts on less thick leathers or to lop off chunks when needed.

[GoldenKnight]

I have the Al Stohlman Damascus (SUS410 High Carbon stainless steel) medium (4 1/2") round knife that I got new & on sale. I have used it on my projects & it has replaced my utility knives, my scisors, and shears for most general purposes. I have had the privilege of using Osborne, Leather Wranglers, and some no-name versions as well as the regular (non Damascus steel) Al Stohlman round knife.

THIS IS NOT THE SAME AS THE LESS EXPENSIVE AL STOHLMAN. The Damascus version is better steel, holds the edge great, and is a quality knife. I may buy another knife of a different size for other purposes, but I really like this Damascus steel round knife. The micro layers of the Damascus process seem to act as micro cutters that help you to slice accurately through leather.

You will be able to cut curves and precise corners as well as straight even cuts, skive, and bevel cut

Knowing how to use this knife is probably the biggest hurdle to most. A good understanding of how thiwith ease. s knife is used will make all the difference in the level of satisfaction one experiences from this or any tool.

I don't work for Tandy - just an occasional customer - but do own this knife and this knife I'd on special right now.

Edited May 7, 2012 by GoldenKnight