How Much Pressure To Apply To Holster Mold

[hatcreek]

Good afternoon all.

I just got a new press from HF. It is a 12 ton machine. I ordered 2 pieces of gum rubber in a 40 hardness. (they had a 40 hardness in three different scales, I got medium soft. I hope it is the right stuff, $76 each.). I got it setup last night and took some wet leather and a blue gun and pressed it together, just to see what it would do. It was just two scraps, not sewn together. I put it down snug, but there was not really any significant tension in the jack handle. About the same you could do with just your hand on the bottle neck pump with out the handle. The inside of the leather took a really good inpression of the gun, down to the lettering, etc. The outside on the other hand barely showed any detail at all. My question is, how much pressure should I be using. Even though they are just molds, the blue guns are still $50 each. I would hate to smash one.

Any insight into these machines would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[RMB Custom Leather]

Good afternoon all.

I just got a new press from HF. It is a 12 ton machine. I ordered 2 pieces of gum rubber in a 40 hardness. (they had a 40 hardness in three different scales, I got medium soft. I hope it is the right stuff, $76 each.). I got it setup last night and took some wet leather and a blue gun and pressed it together, just to see what it would do. It was just two scraps, not sewn together. I put it down snug, but there was not really any significant tension in the jack handle. About the same you could do with just your hand on the bottle neck pump with out the handle. The inside of the leather took a really good inpression of the gun, down to the lettering, etc. The outside on the other hand barely showed any detail at all. My question is, how much pressure should I be using. Even though they are just molds, the blue guns are still $50 each. I would hate to smash one.

Any insight into these machines would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Funny that you posted this because I just got the latest flyer with the 20 ton press on sale for $149.99 the cheapest I have saw it http://www.harborfre...ress-32879.html (need to get the coupon in the flyer at the store to get the sale price). A press has been on my list for some time so I hope you get some good feedback on your posting because next I need to find where to buy the rubber and at what hardness

I will get a ruling from BLUEGUNS and post it about the pressure I do know that some models have steel rods in them which may help.

Edited August 3, 2011 by RMB Custom Leather

[hatcreek]

Thanks Rob, i would very much like to know what Blue Guns says also. I got the guns from you last week and just picked up the press (on Sale) Friday. Anxious to get started.

[Dwight]

Hatcreek, . . . whatever pressure you used to get

The inside of the leather took a really good inpression of the gun, down to the lettering, etc.

is adequate pressure for what you want to do.

If you are looking to get the outside to pick up all the details of the weapon, . . . you literally will be disappointed. All a press is used for is to make the contact against the weapon in the "inside" that makes for good retention.

The outside details are produced by boning the object after the press work has been done.

I use 40 durometer gum rubber, purchased from McMaster-Carr on my press, . . . but I am about to change that, . . . as the work I am doing now does not need the press.

If anyone is interested, . . . I would probably sell my rubber plates, . . . as I really don't use my press much at all anymore.

I have used my 8 ton press for several years now, . . . using blue guns, . . . have never hurt one with it.

May God bless,

Dwight

[hatcreek]

Hatcreek, . . . whatever pressure you used to get is adequate pressure for what you want to do.

If you are looking to get the outside to pick up all the details of the weapon, . . . you literally will be disappointed. All a press is used for is to make the contact against the weapon in the "inside" that makes for good retention.

The outside details are produced by boning the object after the press work has been done.

I use 40 durometer gum rubber, purchased from McMaster-Carr on my press, . . . but I am about to change that, . . . as the work I am doing now does not need the press.

If anyone is interested, . . . I would probably sell my rubber plates, . . . as I really don't use my press much at all anymore.

I have used my 8 ton press for several years now, . . . using blue guns, . . . have never hurt one with it.

May God bless,

Dwight

[hatcreek]

Dwight,

I understand what you mean about the detail, I have been using a vaccumm press for a while now and I do the boning after it is out. What I am looking at is when i vaccumm mold, the leather will for suck up around the gun more around the slide, frame and trigger. I want the same from the press, I am just very concerned about over doing it.

I saw one post that they really put alot of tension on the press, for both blue and real guns. I am just worried about over doing it. 12 tons sounds like a lot of pressure. i will make another holster tonight and post some progress photos tomorrow.

Jim

[Denster]

You will not get the same pull down around the periferyof the weapon that you get with the vaccum when you use the press and rubber pads. Dwight is correct about the press. You don't need or want anywhere close to the pressure it can produce. What you can get is the lines of the weapon exposed on the exterior so you can chase them with your boning tools and for that a few hundred pounds is more than enough. The only benefit of the tonnage of the press is if you decide to use it as a clicker also.

[BigRiverLeather]

I have the same press. I use 3/4" 40 gum rubber on the bottom and 2 - 1" pieces on the top. I pump it until I hear the frame on my press start to groan. That's not actually what I use to gauge it, more feel, but that coincides with what I am doing. If I go to hard it can ruin the nice grain look on the leather.

The only time I've broken a mold is when (I think this is what I was doing,quite a while ago) I had the mold on a hard surface with rubber on top. With nothing to support the trigger guard underneath it cracked it.

It does a pretty good job of pressing it down close to the slide, though I don't leave a lot of room with my stitch lines.

I'm anxious to try vacuum forming someday. Time and money.

[RMB Custom Leather]

Here is what Bluegus sent back when I asked about the amount of pressure. I was hoping for a poundage or something like that but it sounds like just trial and error. I guess if it was a big problem they would know more details about it so that is good. I order all my guns without the top coat unless my customer requests otherwise.

" Se sell about 100 Holster makers and have no problems to date from any one. Should be no problems. Remember to tell us when ordering not to put the final finish on the guns as we use a leather dye on the final finish. Carl Ring"

Edited August 4, 2011 by RMB Custom Leather

[hatcreek]

Okay, here are a few photos of what I did the night before last.

One is before any pressing and the other is after pressing. The last, is the holster in the press to try to show the force.

I did not put alot of pressure on it, just untill it got tight.

I am only using 1/2 inch rubber on top and bottom.

Another possible issue is that my top steel plate is not mounted to the ram. I am not sure if this is good, bad or does not matter.

Thanks for the input,

Jim

Here is what Bluegus sent back when I asked about the amount of pressure. I was hoping for a poundage or something like that but it sounds like just trial and error. I guess if it was a big problem they would know more details about it so that is good. I order all my guns without the top coat unless my customer requests otherwise.

" Se sell about 100 Holster makers and have no problems to date from any one. Should be no problems. Remember to tell us when ordering not to put the final finish on the guns as we use a leather dye on the final finish. Carl Ring"

I am suprised they did not give more detail, guess it is a case of CYA.

Thanks for looking into it for me, i appreciate it!.

[hatcreek]

I have the same press. I use 3/4" 40 gum rubber on the bottom and 2 - 1" pieces on the top. I pump it until I hear the frame on my press start to groan. That's not actually what I use to gauge it, more feel, but that coincides with what I am doing. If I go to hard it can ruin the nice grain look on the leather.

The only time I've broken a mold is when (I think this is what I was doing,quite a while ago) I had the mold on a hard surface with rubber on top. With nothing to support the trigger guard underneath it cracked it.

It does a pretty good job of pressing it down close to the slide, though I don't leave a lot of room with my stitch lines.

I'm anxious to try vacuum forming someday. Time and money.

You have the type of forming that I am looking for around the edges. I will keep trying to increase pressure. How wet is your leather when you are forming it. Mine was wet, then set to dry until it dry to the touch but still cold and very flexible.

[Denster]

Okay, here are a few photos of what I did the night before last.

One is before any pressing and the other is after pressing. The last, is the holster in the press to try to show the force.

I did not put alot of pressure on it, just untill it got tight.

I am only using 1/2 inch rubber on top and bottom.

Another possible issue is that my top steel plate is not mounted to the ram. I am not sure if this is good, bad or does not matter.

Thanks for the input,

Jim

I am suprised they did not give more detail, guess it is a case of CYA.

Thanks for looking into it for me, i appreciate it!.

Those appear to be 1" thick pads not 1/2". The setup you are using will work fine but better if you center the thickest part of the gun under the ram. It will come down more evenly . You have exposed the lines of the gun on the exterior and that is about as much as you can accomplish with the pads and press. You then have to chase those lines with your boning tools.

[hatcreek]

Those appear to be 1" thick pads not 1/2". The setup you are using will work fine but better if you center the thickest part of the gun under the ram. It will come down more evenly . You have exposed the lines of the gun on the exterior and that is about as much as you can accomplish with the pads and press. You then have to chase those lines with your boning tools.

Yep, you are right they are 1 inch. Cool, looks like I am one the right track then.

[BigRiverLeather]

You have the type of forming that I am looking for around the edges. I will keep trying to increase pressure. How wet is your leather when you are forming it. Mine was wet, then set to dry until it dry to the touch but still cold and very flexible.

I wet the leather under HOT water from the faucet for 5-10 seconds, depending on the weight of the leather. I usually don't wait too long until it goes in the press, usually a couple of minutes, long enough for me to get my things together and let the water set in the leather. After it comes out of the press (I only leave it in the press for a minute or two) then I let it sit for a while until the surface shows signs of drying, then I do my hand boning.

I think having 2" of rubber on top and 3/4" on the bottom helps. I also cut my top piece of leather larger than my bottom piece which creates a "hump" of leather for the pistol to slide in. This also helps keep the back of the holster flatter.

Edited August 7, 2011 by BigRiverLeather

[PHIPPS CRAFTED LEATHER]

I have a question about pressure moulding too. I have always just used my hands and I like the results, but have been wondering about making a vacum press using a small vacum pump and a homemade chamber. If you look at modeling web sites you can make a vacum chamber easily. My question is I realize it will remove the air from the chamber and I assume suck the water out of the leather, but my concern is that it may really shrink the leather to much. Anybody else have this idea?

[Denster]

I have a question about pressure moulding too. I have always just used my hands and I like the results, but have been wondering about making a vacum press using a small vacum pump and a homemade chamber. If you look at modeling web sites you can make a vacum chamber easily. My question is I realize it will remove the air from the chamber and I assume suck the water out of the leather, but my concern is that it may really shrink the leather to much. Anybody else have this idea?

A vacuum chamber will not serve for molding holsters. You need a bag made of poly preferably for it's strength and flexibility. When the gun and holster are placed in the bag and it is sealed and a vacuum establilshed the outside air pressure forms the bag around the gun and holster effectively pressing it. With the polybag I can bone the details into the holster right through the bag with a lot less pressure as the bag conforms to hold the detail so there is no danger of burnishing the leather. Some moisture is removed fro the leather during this process but not enough to amount to anything.

In a chamber there is nothing forming the leather around the holster it will just be the same, maybe a little drier when you remove it.

With the bag the outside air pressure is the force, roughly 17.5 lbs /sqin depending on your locations altitude above sea level.

[hatcreek]

I think I will try the Hot water next and see what that does for me, but not to Hot.

Once, I tried to soak the leather in Black tea before a vinegron bath. I guess I was a little anxious and did not let the Tea cool enough. It was like a shrinky dink, the leather shrank up it 1/4 of the original size. It was about 2 minutes after boiling the Tea. Lesson learned.

Any idea on where to get 2 inch rubber for a better price?

Thanks for the help.