Rigging Types - Pictures And Information Please

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Denise here. Wondering if the saddle makers can help answer a couple questions for me to expand my knowledge base about riggings - Can you post pictures or drawings of the different styles of rigging, and tell me why people choose to use one type over the other. Not trying to start any wars here. I know they are all strong enough and all have their place. But are there specific events that prefer one type and why? Are there places where a specific rigging type doesn't work well? Doing a bit of research here and figured I should ask the experts - the people who build them!

[steve mason]

Denise here. Wondering if the saddle makers can help answer a couple questions for me to expand my knowledge base about riggings - Can you post pictures or drawings of the different styles of rigging, and tell me why people choose to use one type over the other. Not trying to start any wars here. I know they are all strong enough and all have their place. But are there specific events that prefer one type and why? Are there places where a specific rigging type doesn't work well? Doing a bit of research here and figured I should ask the experts - the people who build them!

Denise, here is a good article by Chuck Stormes from the eclectic horseman website.

http://www.eclectic-horseman.com/content/view/220/92/

[Denise]

Thanks Steve. Good article.

I've read through all the rigging threads on here as well and Chuck says the same thing - that a D or ring rig can restrict stirrup movement. But then it is a ring rig that is used for the center fire rigging pictured. How are these so different that one restricts the stirrups and the other doesn't? I'm obviously missing something simple here (and I couldn't understand Rod's explanation...). Maybe I just need pictures????

[BOB BRENNER]

Denise,

The ways and wherefores of rigging types and positions can take several days. Generally the type of saddle and its use should determine the type of rigging. Chuck's article does a great job of explaining the basics.

To answer your question, look at the position of the the dee rig and the center fire rig.

The center fire ring is positioned under the stirrup leather and fender. As the stirrup leather and fender move forward they freely ride along the rigging strap with the only restriction being the stirrup leather slot and/or the swell.

The dee rig is positioned in front of the stirrrup leather and fender. As the stirrup leather and fender move forward they may run into the rigging dee or rigging leather and thus restricting forward movement.

This should not be a problem is the saddle maker does his or her job right.

A short answer. Hope this helps, if not let me know and I will be more detailed.

Bob

[Denise]

Bob,

In this thread http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=286&st there is discussion about D riggings and how the connecting strap helps the stirrup leather ride over top the D ring. I can understand that with a D ring, you can't angle the rigging like you can with an O to have a connection front and back, so the pull has to be pretty much directly down. With that being the case, the D rigging has to be full or almost so or else your rigging will come into the area under the stirrup leather. But with a connecting strap "guiding" the stirrup leather over the rigging, why are there still problems with it interfering with stirrup swing? I still feel like I am missing something basic here...

[BOB BRENNER]

Denise,

The rig hobble does help in a dee rigged saddle along with the design of the rigging leather etc. As I stated before, if the rigging is designed and installed properly there should be no restriction. How the saddle maker accomplishes this task will depend upon his or her training. I have seen several different ways of installing a dee rigging that achieves the same outcome. I get in saddles all the time with poorly installed riggings both production and custom. That all given, I have run across situations where the stirrup leather buckle was so high it interfered with the dee or latigo (tie strap) causing restriction. Other than that I am at a loss as to your question.

I am going to make a guess here. Are you referring to what some call a free swinging stirrup leather?

The standard or conventional saddle and tree design has a built in restriction as to the forward movement of the stirrup leather. The stirrup slot on the tree determines the amount of free forward movement the stirrup leather has. See the blue line in the attached example. When the rider moves their feet forward, the free unrestricted movement stops when the stirrup leather hits the shoulder of the stirrup leather slot, either on the top or bottom of the bar. When one attempts to move past this point, (See the red line in the example.), the stirrup leather is held in place by the slot and the stirrup leather will bind at a point below the bars of the tree. There are various force vectors that come into play here that create the resistance or restriction.

This has been a "problem" forever. Over the years there have been several other designs proposed and used to "solve" the "problem". In fact there have been some US patents issued for these designs. The most well known was Slim Fallis. John Fallis, his son, still uses his method.

So its your fault.

Does this answer your question?

Bob

[Denise]

Bob,

I understand about stirrup slots. Most trees (ours included) only have the slots on the bottom so you don't have to worry about the fork being in the way. The one in your picture is pretty straight compared to the ones we put on our bars, and we have never had a problem with people wanting more angle on them once they have had one of our trees.

Round ring and dee-ring riggings are made by doubling a strong piece of skirting leather around the hardware and attaching it to the tree with screws. While simple and effective, it can cause extra bulk and restrict stirrup leather movement, especially in positions other than full.

This is quoted from Chuck Storme's article in Eclectic Horseman. I have been trying to figure out why a ring rig like the centerfire one shown in that article have any more restriction on stirrup movement than a skirt rig. I finally figured out my problem. I have been thinking about the top stirrup leather and not the bottom one. The answer finally became obvious to me from the drawings Keith posted in post # 13 on this thread: post 13 in this thread http://leatherworker...h=1 He has a "cut out" if you will in both drawings to allow the bottom stirrup leather more forward movement. With a ring rigging angled backwards, there is no way to make that "cut out" so while the top stirrup leather rides over the rigging OK, the bottom one is stalled out by coming between the rigging and the bar. The higher the rigging ring is set, the worse the restriction is. Sometimes, it just takes me a while to get the simplest ideas...

As a curiousity factor, here are a couple pictures of the old saddle that sits in our living room. The rigging has been redone years ago, so who knows how the original matched with the front jockeys. (The rigging is hung pretty low on this one, so it doesn't restrict stirrup swing, so it was leading me in the wrong direction in my thinking.) The bottom of the jockeys are what restrict the forward stirrup swing on this saddle. Both sides are wrinkled pretty badly, and if you try to move the stirrups forward, they sure hit the jockeys.