Usmc Black And Leather Balm

[papaface29]

Hello,

Just finished a belt last week that I dyed usmc black. I had planned on applying leather balm and then satin sheen. I decided to test the leather balm on the tag end of the belt that is folded over around the buckle. I'm glad I did, because it started buffing out the dye!

This is the first time I've dyed a project, so I'm wondering if this is normal? I just went right to satin sheen for the rest of the belt and the color held fine.

I don't think the problem had to do with being stingy with the dye--I went pretty liberal on it, 2 coats to make sure it got down into the basketweave pattern.

Any help is appreciated,

Lorne

[katsass]

Hello,

Just finished a belt last week that I dyed usmc black. I had planned on applying leather balm and then satin sheen. I decided to test the leather balm on the tag end of the belt that is folded over around the buckle. I'm glad I did, because it started buffing out the dye!

This is the first time I've dyed a project, so I'm wondering if this is normal? I just went right to satin sheen for the rest of the belt and the color held fine.

I don't think the problem had to do with being stingy with the dye--I went pretty liberal on it, 2 coats to make sure it got down into the basketweave pattern.

Any help is appreciated,

Lorne

Well, all dyes have particles of color in them to produce the desired effect. Some have smaller than others or more or less than others, but all black dyes have them. Actually all dyes have them, but USMC Black, has a LOT. Using it, (or any black dye) most find that after drying, one must buff the living hell out of the object dyed in order to remove as many as possible of these particles from the surface prior to finishing. Don't feel that you did something incorrectly with your black dye, it's just the nature of the beast. I wore black dyed leather holsters supplied by the Dept.I worked for for 35 years. EVERY time I got a new one, there was rub off on my uniform ...... and these were from BIG commercial outfits. The only way I have found to completely exclude this from happening is to use vinegaroon. Mike

Edited October 16, 2011 by katsass

[papaface29]

Yeah, I knew I had to buff off that chalky kind of residue after each coat. Buffing after the second coat left a good solid black finish. It seemed that the leather balm was abrasive enough or somehow dissolved the dye (I don't know if that is how things actually work) and it started buffing right off.

RE the vinegaroon--does this in any way weaken the leather, or does it simply act to dye it?

And one last musing...I wonder if it is the same chemical reaction when the snaps on some Tandy kits start dyeing the leather around the snap (after casing and drying). Kind of a mini-vinegaroon

Thanks, Lorne

[katsass]

Yeah, I knew I had to buff off that chalky kind of residue after each coat. Buffing after the second coat left a good solid black finish. It seemed that the leather balm was abrasive enough or somehow dissolved the dye (I don't know if that is how things actually work) and it started buffing right off.

RE the vinegaroon--does this in any way weaken the leather, or does it simply act to dye it?

And one last musing...I wonder if it is the same chemical reaction when the snaps on some Tandy kits start dyeing the leather around the snap (after casing and drying). Kind of a mini-vinegaroon

Thanks, Lorne

Well, I can't say anything about Leather Balm .... never have used it .... actually have never seen it. As to vinegaroon; it's actually a mild form of ferric (or ferrous, not quite sure which) acetate, which chemically reacts with the tannins in the leather to turn the leather black all the way through. In that respect it is not a dye per se. The only effect it has on the leather (to my knowledge) is to make it somewhat more resistive to water, that is, in addition to making it black. It is my understanding that blackened items from the 1600s have been found that were processed with vinegaroon, also called vinegar black, so if there is any other effect it doesn't seem to be destructive. I do not and will not use much from Tandy anymore, so I can't speak to that either. Hope what little I've said about vinegaroon helps a bit. Mike

Edited October 18, 2011 by katsass

[TwinOaks]

In my experience, the vinegaroon does dry out the leather a bit, which is why it's such an important step to oil it after treatment. As the vinegaroon reacts with the tannins, I've noticed that it tends to push some of the natural oils/waxes out of the leather, which is what gives it the water resistance.....also another reason to re-condition the leather.

As far as Leather Balm with Atom Wax...It covers well and gives a soft tone to the leather, but I don't think it should be used as a top coat. It just isn't hardy enough, IMO. It seems to act kind of like a less penetrating, shinier carnuba cream. Good for something like a bag or a strap, but not designed to withstand hard use.

[Nighthawk]

You know something that I have found to be incredible for removing that excess color is blue microfleece. It's a cloth you can buy at Home Depot. I work for a company called Renaissance Leather, and the truth is that even after we've sheened, carnuba-ed/buffed, and finished black items, we still keep them isolated from everything else. You're having a pretty normal issue. Just buff the living hell out of the piece before you wax it. (And for the record, even though we use carnuba creme at work, I still prefer the luster of the leather balm/atom wax and use it exclusively on my side projects.)

[ramrod]

i've used the USMC black but i really don't like the residue rubbing off and staining everything it touches. you sould try feibing's oli dye. i don't know how - but it does

NOT rub off. it's the only black dye that i use now.

[mrdabeetle]

i've used the USMC black but i really don't like the residue rubbing off and staining everything it touches. you sould try feibing's oli dye. i don't know how - but it does

NOT rub off. it's the only black dye that i use now.

I second the Feibing's oil dye. I love the stuff. It seems to coat more evenly so you don't have to use as much as you would with USMC black. Although, the USMC black does create a "blacker" black (you would have to see them side-by-side). I only use USMC black when I'm looking for a high gloss black finish.

Buff, buff, buff, buff, take a break, buff, buff, buff...

I have never had any dye rub off onto any clothing. I do use liberal amounts of finish as well as Dr. Johnson's Water Protector on pretty much everything. (I spill things a lot.)