Members glockanator Posted November 26, 2011 Author Members Report Posted November 26, 2011 A lot of retention comes from the molding and stitching around the trigger guard. You have very little of the trigger guard inside the holster. You should try molding and boning the cylinder as detailed as possible and get as much detail as you can around the cylinder area. This may help hold the holster. You might need to place an additional stitch line between the gun and the current line to decrease the space in the holster. This will make the gun tighter. Make sure to mold and bone both sides. I would work on making the molding and boning as tight and formed as possible. This will increase the tension and hopefully fix the issue. Worst case you would either have to add a strap or chuck in in the scrap box and start over. Most of us have done that at least once. What weight is the leather? Where did the leather come from? Michael I soaked the holster and jammed the gun in there as far as it would go and that it were it stopped. I also wrapped the gun in saran wrap and I think that is why it is so lose in the holster now. Quote
mlapaglia Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 What weight is the leather? 8/9, 5/6, 9/10?? You want the leather wet. not dripping but more than just damp like when you case it. Its called "Wet forming" for a reason. You might want to read this quote by TwinOaks, http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=35437&view=findpost&p=219512 you will find it helpful. Oil up the gun and try one layer of saran wrap and re-wet the holster. Then mold and bone the cylinder, the trigger guard (as much as there is, and any where else you can find to increase the hold on the gun. If it has an ejector strap on the bottom make sure to bone that real well. Anywhere you can get some detail so it will hold. When you first push the gun into the holster it might stop sooner than it should., Work it and try to push it in farther. Your original picture had the gun in farther. With some effort and work you should have the trigger guard up against that first curve of the stitch line. It just takes time and effort. Its not easy. You are asking the leather to stretch and its not going to want to. But it will. I had one that would not go into the wet holster more than 2 inches at first. With work and stretching the leather it made it all the way in. Depending on how wet you start with you might have to do it 4 or more times as it drys. After an hour or so it should be dry enough to remove the gun. Do not let it dry with the gun in place. Place it in an oven set to 150-190 DegF for 20 minutes. The leather needs to get to 120-130 deg. So keep an eye on it and maybe let it go a little more. Just dont over bake it and burn it. After you remove it from the oven place it in front of a fan for several hours or over night. Make sure the air is flowing through the inside of the hostler and not against one side. This will dry the inside really well. Hopefully at this point you will have a better fit on the holster. Michael Quote The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering. Bruce Lee
Members glockanator Posted November 26, 2011 Author Members Report Posted November 26, 2011 I dont really get the whole weight thing so I couldnt tell you. Sorry. I did use four layers as an attempt to line the holster though. Quote
mlapaglia Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) Leather is sized by weight. 1 sg ft of 1/64 thick leather is 1 oz. so 8/9 oz leather would be 8/64 (1/8) to 9/64. In other countries its done in metric. for your holster a good weight would be 8/9 but 7/8 or 9/10 would work on also. Its good to know the weight of the leather so you know if you have the right thickness for the project you are working on. In this case it would help to know how thick a single layer was to see how difficult it would be to bone the leather. the heaver the leather the harder it is to get good detail out of. If you have a caliper or are good with a ruler take a piece of your scrap and measure it. Most of my holsters are done in 8/9 oz leather. I am working on a cell phone case today that is using 4/5 oz leather. It's just something that is useful to know when you use leather. was this a scrap piece or did you buy it as a larger amount? Your receipt might tell you the size. Michael Edited November 26, 2011 by mlapaglia Quote The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering. Bruce Lee
Denster Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 One ounce weight of leather equals 1/64 of an inch thick. Example 8oz is nominally 1/8in thick. Since you used four layers you have a grain side in and out which is a good way of making holsters if you don't over do it. In any case when you wet it dunk it in warm water with a few drops of dishwashing liquid in it to help break the surface tension. With your four layer a 4 or 5 second dunk should get it plenty wet. Wait until the outside of the holster starts to return to normal. Then open the holster in the barrel and triggerguard area. I use a forming stick but a hammer handle works good also. Then insert the gun, skip the saran wrap, with blue guns I wax the outside with stainless don't worry about it. If you can't get the gun all the way in work on the tight spots with the hammer handle until you can get it in. Once it is in start moving the leather around the major details with your thumbs you can then bone in the fine details with whatever boning tools you prefer. Once it is done immediately remove the gun and put in into an oven or heat box. If you are using an oven have a cooking thermometer inside because the dial temp are notoriously inaccurate. You don't want the oven to get hotter than 135 degrees at max. Leave it in for twenty to thirty minutes at least, longer won't hurt. After you take it out let it air dry a fan does help. Side note temperatures from 150 to 190 will give you a large cowrind something llike a pork rind but not as tasty. Quote
mlapaglia Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 Most regular ovens I have seen dont go as low as 135 deg. I know mine has a lowest temp of 190. As long as I keep an eye on it and make sure the leather does not rise above 125-130F there isnt a problem. With the leather damp it takes a while for it to get above 130 deg. Its all what you have available to you and how you do it. It's not the temp of the oven but the temp of the leather that really matters. It takes a couple of hours for a turkey to reach 180 degs in a 325 oven. same concept with a holster in a 190 oven but its a lot faster. Most times I use my toaster oven set at 200 with the door cracked by a fork. It takes at least 25 minutes in that oven for a damp holster to reach 125 degs in the leather. I agree that left too long 150-190 will ruin the leather but keep an eye on it and you will be fine. If you have an oven that goes as low as 135 you are lucky. most of us don't Denster your comment was helpful as I had not explained the hazard of leaving it too long in a warmer oven. Thanks for bringing it up. Michael Quote The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering. Bruce Lee
Denster Posted November 26, 2011 Report Posted November 26, 2011 Most regular ovens I have seen dont go as low as 135 deg. I know mine has a lowest temp of 190. As long as I keep an eye on it and make sure the leather does not rise above 125-130F there isnt a problem. With the leather damp it takes a while for it to get above 130 deg. Its all what you have available to you and how you do it. It's not the temp of the oven but the temp of the leather that really matters. It takes a couple of hours for a turkey to reach 180 degs in a 325 oven. same concept with a holster in a 190 oven but its a lot faster. Most times I use my toaster oven set at 200 with the door cracked by a fork. It takes at least 25 minutes in that oven for a damp holster to reach 125 degs in the leather. I agree that left too long 150-190 will ruin the leather but keep an eye on it and you will be fine. If you have an oven that goes as low as 135 you are lucky. most of us don't Denster your comment was helpful as I had not explained the hazard of leaving it too long in a warmer oven. Thanks for bringing it up. Michael I use a cheap convection oven from wal-mart and use the warmer selection and a thermometer inside although it's not hard to build a warmer box with some blue board a 60watt light bulb, meat thermometer and rheostat. It does not take long at all for damp leather to reach the oven temperature. It also doesn't take long at over 150 to ruin a holster. The anology with the turkey is not really valid. Quote
mlapaglia Posted November 27, 2011 Report Posted November 27, 2011 I use a cheap convection oven from wal-mart and use the warmer selection and a thermometer inside although it's not hard to build a warmer box with some blue board a 60watt light bulb, meat thermometer and rheostat. It does not take long at all for damp leather to reach the oven temperature. It also doesn't take long at over 150 to ruin a holster. The anology with the turkey is not really valid. My only point was to show that there are several ways to achieve getting the leather to 125-130 deg F. I doubt I would have used a turkey had it not been 2 days past thanksgiving. If I still lived in Tucson, as I did as a child, a piece of aluminum foil and a noon day sun would give me the heat I needed. It was a teaching example. Thank you for your contributions to my attempt to assist someone with a question. It is what this forum is all about. Michael Quote The key to immortality is first living a life worth remembering. Bruce Lee
Members glockanator Posted November 27, 2011 Author Members Report Posted November 27, 2011 Okay I went back and re did some of the steps. I have oneida those Ronco food saver jobs and used that and a handle to mold the holster. I didn't get a chance to do the oven thing. Mainly because my one year old is sick and woke up. I did t want to risk leaving it in the oven and forgetting it. Can someone explain what the oven thing does for the holster? Thanks for all the help! Quote
Contributing Member TwinOaks Posted November 27, 2011 Contributing Member Report Posted November 27, 2011 The heat sets the organic "glue" in the fibers. Moistening kind of "re-activates" them and lubricates the fibers. First you get them moist, then you get them hot - result is that you can shape it then 'set' the leather in that shape. Re-moistening the leather before heating it will re-lubricate the fibers and allow further molding......to a degree. If you've done any burnishing, you can 'undo' it with too much flexing. Please note that every wet/dry cycle will probably leave the leather a bit stiffer than the cycle before. Quote Mike DeLoach Esse Quam Videri (Be rather than Seem) "Don't learn the tricks of the trade.....Learn the trade." "Teach what you know......Learn what you don't." LEATHER ARTISAN'S DIGITAL GUILD on Facebook.
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