Plaiting With Cowhide

[AZ Pete]

Hi all -

I am new to the forum (actually this is my first post)! I am also VERY new to plaiting and leather work. I started a bullwhip recently (thanks to Bernie's DVD's and a load of books, etc.) and have loved the process. The bullwhip that I am making is out of kangaroo hide. However, I want to continue to learn and develop my skills (long way to go). As with most hobby's, they cost money. I don't mind that. However, kangaroo is kind of out of my budget during the learning stages. I can do a few projects with it here and there but would like to also learn to use cowhide/kip/latigo (something less expensive than roo).

Which brings me to the help I need. Looking for advice from the experts out there:

What types of leather (other than roo) would be best for whip making? I see a lot of people using veg-tanned cowhide and some folks using latigo. There are so many options out there it makes my head spin. What kinds/sizes of leather should I be looking for (i.e. tooling leather, latigo, calfskin?? 2-3 oz, 3-4 oz???)? I'm will to try different leathers but just need some guidance as to what I should be looking for when it comes to whip making (durability, etc...).

Thanks, in advance, for any and all advice!

Best Regards

Pete

Edited February 9, 2012 by AZ Pete

[rcsaddles]

I havemade stock whips out of both burgandy latigo and the Indian Tan Latigo. The Indian Tan will give you a real workout while braiding. Not as soft and supple as the burgandy stuff. Lots of people also use parachute cord for whips. That will also help keep the cost down. I don't braid a lot of whips so take this all with a grain of salt. Just my opinion but I really like the Indian Tan Latigo.

[bullwhips]

You can make a bullwhip out of pretty much any leather. Veg tanned cowhide works for lower plait count whips. The project will determine the weight of the leather. You can make a 4 plait whip with a heavier leather, but if you plan on making a 24 plait whip you'll need something a bit lighter.

[AZ Pete]

You can make a bullwhip out of pretty much any leather. Veg tanned cowhide works for lower plait count whips. The project will determine the weight of the leather. You can make a 4 plait whip with a heavier leather, but if you plan on making a 24 plait whip you'll need something a bit lighter.

Thanks for the info. If I was going to stick with 8-12 plait (maybe 16 down the road), what would you recommend as far as the weight? I was looking at latigo as well but the lightest I can find is around 5oz. Can you split latigo down? I have seen some whip makers using latigo for 12 plait just don't know the weight that would be needed for that.

Thanks again!

Pete

[bullwhips]

You can split any leather down. However if you were to split a 3mm thick leather down to 1mm, in my experience it's not as strong as getting leather that came from the tannery in the 1mm range.

If I was planning on doing 8 - 12 - 16 plait whips I wouldn't waste my time with latigo I'd stick to kangaroo. Unlike kangaroo where a skin makes about 1 whip (give or take) a side of latigo is an investment in somewhere between 3-6 whips depending on what you are making and how you are making it. So regardless of whether or not you end up liking latigo you've got a lot of it.

I make a ton of 4 plait bullwhips from veg tanned cowhide that's about 1 mm thick. At that thickness it's thin enough so that you don't have to do any splitting and it allows you room inside to play with internal structure.

Louie

[Kiscien]

Hi!

I'm using both kangaroo and cowhide to make whips. And you can use 1.8 mm cowhide (4-5 oz). Such leather will be good anough to make 8 or 12 plait whips. 16 strand plait will have to be loose, not tight. I would give you the name of the tanning type that I use, but I don't know the english names for it . Anyway this leather is for boot making. It's durable and strong . In Tandy I think it's in the upholstery section.

I'm sending on of my old whip I made, in black cowhide 12 plait.

Karol

Edited February 16, 2012 by Kiscien

[Sovran81]

To expand on what Louie was saying, thin leather bought is normally roll pressed which adds strength to the leather. Splitting it yourself stretches the leather or decompresses it since most small splitters require you to pull it through. On the other hand, bought leather tends to be less consistent then strands you split yourself.

Using other hide than roo will greatly increase the hands on time of the leather before you even get to plaiting. Roo has very little stretch in it and makes a tight plait. Other types of hide have much more stretch and usually must be greased and stretched much more than roo. After this you have to resize the strand again since the stretchy bits tend to shrink in width.

Veg tanned is the preferred tanning process for all leather used in whips. Roo hides are generally drum stuffed afterwards which adds to strength and greases it internally. I have used upholstery leather (chrome tanned) to make 12 plait whips and they have come out pretty nice after taking the time to grease and bevel the strands. They have held up longer than expected and kept the color well. BUT you wont be able to get the 1/8" strands to make the finer whips without breaking a lot of strands while plaiting. Its kinda one of those "pay me now or pay me later" things. Nothing sucks worse than getting near the end of the whip to break the last extra strand you added at the beginning just for broken strands.

Forgot to say I split down to .8-1.3 mm depending on leather type.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Joe M

[AZ Pete]

Thanks to all for the advice!

Couple more questions:

1) I am familiar with preparing roo for plaiting. However, do you stretch cowhide the same way as I would roo? Because it is not as strong as roo, do I need to be more ginger in my stretching?

2) Should I grease the cow strands prior to stretching (with leather dressing or plaiting soap, correct?)?

I will definitely want to plait more with roo, but would still like to try cow, if for nothing more than the practice and experience with different types of hide.

Thanks again!

[Kiscien]

Hi!

It depends on a hide you have. Type of tanning that I use don't need to be stretched - it's simply not so stretchy as roo. Always grease before stretch, speccialy cowhide and if you have to stretch you need to be more gentle . For example cowhide I use don't need to be stretched, paired or anything. I just cut it, skive it and it's ready to plait .

Personally I like plaiting in cow. Main drawback (sorry if the word is wrong) of this hide is that it's almost impossible to plait using thin strands. But untill I have to plait in more than 12 strands I like this leather .

Karol

Edited February 16, 2012 by Kiscien

[Sovran81]

Depending on the part of the hide the strand comes from determines the amount of stretch. I try to match strands from the same part of the hide so they all stretch the same. Yes you stretch the same as roo. Realistically I would rather have the strand break on the hook then on the whip. Heavily grease your strands before and during stretching. use more grease as you plait. It doesnt matter what type of critter leather you are using, greasing during plaiting is pretty much the last chance to get grease into the plait.

[AZ Pete]

Thanks again, Karol and Joe. Your advice is much appreciated!

I am thinking of trying a side of Hermann Oak veg tanned tooling leather 3-4oz and see how that goes. When you are making cowhide whips do you still try to get two braided bellies and bolsters (as necessary for thickness)?

[Sovran81]

Do you plan on using a shot bag? If so your finished whip might be very thick using 3-4 oz. That is 9-12 oz thickness of leather braided tight not including core material. That will make for a very small diameter core. Remember a whip is supposed to be supple once broken in.

[Kiscien]

When plaiting in cowhide I use to make core - with steel spike and leather core, than 4 plait belly, bolster and top plait. Diameter of a whip is around 22-23 mm. If I will use a shot bag it will be little bit thicker

Mr. Joe - do you stretch cow hide beacuse you check if it broke? Or you have such stretchy leather? From my experience roo hide is much more stretchy then cow - that is why I'm asking.

[Sovran81]

I stretch all my hide I plait with. Like Pete I cant always afford to use roo so I have experimented with other hides. The biggest determining factor for stretch I have found is where the strand comes from. A strand from the shoulders has almost no stretch while a strand from the belly is can stretch by 1/3. I split my strands to .8-1.3 mm. Roo happens to be about that thickness. Cow needs to be split to that. taking a strand from each animal the same size cut from the same area (shoulder/back) the roo stretches less. from the belly the roo seems to stretch more. Since I have only used roo a few times and they were female, I assumed the roo belly stretch had something to do with it being marsupial. I am far from an expert and didnt stay at a Holiday Inn last night, these were just my findings with the hides I have used.

Edit- I try to keep my whips at 20-22 mm. I prefer the Aussie thin whips to the American 25mm thick ones.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Joe M

[AZ Pete]

Do you plan on using a shot bag? If so your finished whip might be very thick using 3-4 oz. That is 9-12 oz thickness of leather braided tight not including core material. That will make for a very small diameter core. Remember a whip is supposed to be supple once broken in.

No, I am not using a shot bag at this time. However, I did some calculations last night and you are right. I think that 3-4 oz might be too thick. I have a 2-3 oz hide from Tandy (tooling veg tanned) that I have been using for bolsters. I cut a test strand and split it to the thinnest part of the strand. It came out to about 1mm. I use a hand splitter from Dene Williams and it does a really good job splitting the strands. The strand that I cut, stretched and split seemed pretty strong. I will see if I can find a 2-3oz hide somewhere.

Next question, have you dyed your own strands before? Just curious how that works. I can't seem to find hides in different colors very often (especially thin hides around 2-3 oz).

[Kiscien]

I dyed. It works preety nice You simply have to remember to put some finisher on.

[AZ Pete]

I dyed. It works preety nice You simply have to remember to put some finisher on.

Thanks, Karol!

[Sovran81]

I have seen that splitter, I opted for one that would have the capacity for bellies also and have a keystone. If you are interested in beveling your strands, I have a pic of my homemade sizer/beveler in my gallery. Feel free to copy it, I did.

For black on veg tanned I use vinegroon before cutting. I havent really played with other colors but when I try it I will probably make a batch of rit alcohol based dye and soak the strands before greasing and stretching. My thought is that the strand will allow the dye to soak in more thoroughly. Downside is that after stretching it might produce lighter color. Greasing may darken the color afterwards. Just another reason to use strands from the same section of hide.

@Kiscien I checked out your website. That is some fine work. I work in paracord as well as leather. Unfortunately I have higher demand for the paracord whips so get little time to perfect my leather plaiting.

[AZ Pete]

I have seen that splitter, I opted for one that would have the capacity for bellies also and have a keystone. If you are interested in beveling your strands, I have a pic of my homemade sizer/beveler in my gallery. Feel free to copy it, I did.

For black on veg tanned I use vinegroon before cutting. I havent really played with other colors but when I try it I will probably make a batch of rit alcohol based dye and soak the strands before greasing and stretching. My thought is that the strand will allow the dye to soak in more thoroughly. Downside is that after stretching it might produce lighter color. Greasing may darken the color afterwards. Just another reason to use strands from the same section of hide.

@Kiscien I checked out your website. That is some fine work. I work in paracord as well as leather. Unfortunately I have higher demand for the paracord whips so get little time to perfect my leather plaiting.

Funny you mention the sizer/beveler. I made one this weekend! Can't wait to use it on the overlay for the whip I am working on now.

[Kiscien]

@Kiscien I checked out your website. That is some fine work. I work in paracord as well as leather. Unfortunately I have higher demand for the paracord whips so get little time to perfect my leather plaiting.

Thanks . I'm still translating it. I made few paracord whips for now, but I plait in leather.

[Kiscien]

Hello!

As a picture is worth 1000 words, here is en example of cowhide plaiting. Hide is 2 mm thick (around 5 oz), without stretching or using splitter. Strands are only skived.

[AZ Pete]

Hello!

As a picture is worth 1000 words, here is en example of cowhide plaiting. Hide is 2 mm thick (around 5 oz), without stretching or using splitter. Strands are only skived.

Very nice work, Kiscien! I like that whip. I am definitely going to make a cowhide whip next.

[mauifarrier]

I am also interested in whip making, so I purchased the How to make whips book on amazon for about $15. it came in a few days. There are some interesting strategies for cutting strands and using different types of leather detailed in the book. Personally I am using deer rawhide that I prepared myself, so that really keeps costs down. Will post a photo when finished. I hope others will do the same.

Aloha,

Gretchen

[AZ Pete]

I am also interested in whip making, so I purchased the How to make whips book on amazon for about $15. it came in a few days. There are some interesting strategies for cutting strands and using different types of leather detailed in the book. Personally I am using deer rawhide that I prepared myself, so that really keeps costs down. Will post a photo when finished. I hope others will do the same.

Aloha,

Gretchen

Thanks, Gretchen. I have that book as well. Found it very useful. Please post pics of you deer hide whip when you get a chance. I'm interested in seeing how it turns out. Also curious as to what you think of using deer for whips.

Regards,

Pete