Blanchard, Dixon Or Barnsley Knives

[Trox]

Hi Frank,

Apparently html programming is not his cup of tea. My advice to him is to hire somebody qualified to do the work for him. Then concentrate on selling tools instead.

I do not need any new tools, but if I see something nice, I might buy it. I will only compare his tools with other toolmakers in the same class (like Blanchard, Dixon, Osborne and other pro toolmakers having a catalog of their tools). I have seen what he has listed on Bonanza, his prices, 27 sales and 299 feedback’s (293 of them are imported from other sites, and cannot be verified) The six feedbacks from Bonanza are from users that only bought one item (purchase) each (ensuring? No). Some of his prices are normal, some is not. Some of the tools look like good old Barnsley other not. The plough gauge must be a joke, what toolmaker would put their name on that? What I am saying is; these are all things that make me as a customer on the alert. Small things that do not add up, and scare me away from buying something from him. A salesperson’s job is to make the customer assured of his products; so far, he has not done a good job. So if you can tell me what tool you bought from him, and if you liked it/them; that will be a much more useful feedback to us.

Thanks

Trox

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The reason why Barnsley tools are higher priced is because the materials used to make the grade of steel they use have increased quite a bit and are not always readily available at previous prices. There are only a couple mills still producing the metal the tools require. You want quality reliable tools? No matter what product you buy today if it is well made it will cost more. If you want to buy cheap then eventially the quality items will no longer be available. As far as Hale and Company's web site : It is taking Mr. Hale a Long time to get his site complete since he had to learn code and such on his own to get his site the way he wants it to make it easy for people to go through. You want tools just call him and ask. The quality of the tools are the same as the old stock.

Frank

[Art]

What grade of steel do they use? Steel prices have went up, everything has gone up, so all tools seem to have gone up a reasonable amount, but that amount is maybe $10 to $20 over the last decade for the amount used in a handtool. There is a line of distinction between higher prices and outrageous. As a marketing principal, trust is of paramount importance. Mr Hale should market the old stock as Barnsley, and anything he makes as Hale. If he is making quality product, Hale will become a go to makers mark. Mr. Hale should of course come on Leatherworker.net and tell us about what he is doing.

Art

The reason why Barnsley tools are higher priced is because the materials used to make the grade of steel they use have increased quite a bit and are not always readily available at previous prices. There are only a couple mills still producing the metal the tools require. You want quality reliable tools? No matter what product you buy today if it is well made it will cost more. If you want to buy cheap then eventially the quality items will no longer be available. As far as Hale and Company's web site : It is taking Mr. Hale a Long time to get his site complete since he had to learn code and such on his own to get his site the way he wants it to make it easy for people to go through. You want tools just call him and ask. The quality of the tools are the same as the old stock.

Frank

[Trox]

LOW cost steel @ HIGH prices.

A comparison on prices: the Hale & Co price on the Barnsley Crew punch set; 11 punches bought as a set 1,809.00 $ compared to the very similar looking well known (hi priced) J. Dixon 10 crew punches ( bought individual and not as a set) 700 $ (including tax) Bought as a set you will for sure get a big discount.

I done some simple research, many of this tools sold by Hale are in fact made by George Barnsley sons. The company name is Woodware Rep. LTD Sheffield England (as mention before). This is also the maker stamp on the new tools. Many this tools are sold as economy saddler tools in England; Abby lists many of the same tools.

Abby supply saddlers with first class Dixon and Osborn tools and list Woodware Rep LDT as economical tools.

I have an account with Abby and I checked some prices; Swedish patt. knife 4 ¼ “cost 30 $ at Hale and 5 $ with Abby.

The green handle knifes the same, Woodware makes low priced head, round knifes and other shoemaker / saddler tools. Technically this are George Barnsley`s son’s tools not George Barnsley and sons LDT but Woodware Rep LDT Sheffield England.

Mr. Frank English has his own pattern cowboy boots green handle knife, 24 $. In England, it cost about three £.

This is in a gray area; I do not know the US marketing laws. However, in my country this would not be legal. Hale sells this tools as old and new stock Barnsley and sons LDT. Just because the sons of George Barnsley made them, that do not make them George Barnsley and sons LDT tools.

He is misleading the customers; make the customer believe he is buying an item more worth than what he gets. When Mr. Frank English Cowboy has his own pattern knife, I will not take his feedback as truth. When they have a shady picture of a tool, and three pages of description. Trying to make hype, using only 19. century names of old artisans’ and tools. Spending more time on the façade of a web page than the content. Making it all look old and truth wordy, that is where you go wrong Mr. Hale and Co. This is one of the oldest tricks in the book. Tricking nice hard working leatherworkers to pay ten times more than they have to, where I come from, that is stealing.

Mr. Frank and Dr. Hale, you are BUSTED

The reason why Barnsley tools are higher priced is because the materials used to make the grade of steel they use have increased quite a bit and are not always readily available at previous prices. There are only a couple mills still producing the metal the tools require. You want quality reliable tools? No matter what product you buy today if it is well made it will cost more. If you want to buy cheap then eventially the quality items will no longer be available. As far as Hale and Company's web site : It is taking Mr. Hale a Long time to get his site complete since he had to learn code and such on his own to get his site the way he wants it to make it easy for people to go through. You want tools just call him and ask. The quality of the tools are the same as the old stock.

Frank

[Newfman]

Very interesting conversation.

One of the things that interest me about considering old tools, as in really old tools, is the quality of the steel, not just the name or 'looks' of it. The type and quality of hand made tools of the late 1800's and very early 1900's seems to be lost forever. I think the part that got lost is the process, and effectively, the recipe for the tool makers steel. I might be jumping to conclusions here, but, even in a family owned and operated company, modern ovens, forges, power forges, alloys etc., have changed the character of the products, though they may carry the same stamp.

I, amongst other things, am a Timberframer. I am very particular about the framing chisles I buy. Good ones cut across the grain of a timber like butter. There will be no tearing or separating of the grain fibers, and getting a perfect 90 degree cut is a breeze, hand held and well eyeballed. A framing chisle made at a modern factory, doesn't stand a chance. Doesn't hold an edge, and can't take a good edge to begin with.

There was a chisle maker in the late 1800's and early 1900's named James Swan. To find a Swan Chisle today is really a treat. Many of his chisles were made from Crucible Steel. The old ways are lost, as well as the formulas. That being said, not all old framing chisles were good. There were tons of makers, but many were pretty utilitarian, and the steel was a bit lacking.

I have had an opportunity to use a 1.5" Swan framing chisle, and it was better than my Barr Quarton hand hand forged chisle, and Barr is the best available today. . .bar none. (Sorry Barr). I think the amount of carbon in todays products is lacking. Shiny and pretty, as well as light seems to be the way. Yep, the higher carbon, hand forged, tools of yesteryear rust and or get that (wonderful) patina, but they take an edge like nothing else. Even better than the the best made modern tools. That is how I found it to be in the Timberframing world, I would be surprised to find it that much different in Leather tools.

Somebody may be making tools "like" the past, but they won't be the same. Not unless they do it how their forefathers did, and that isn't very likely.

Just an opinon, for what it's worth. $.02

Dennis

[Trox]

I am part of a large community of leather workers that helps and looks out for each other.

You are leaving feedback and verifying his products as Barnsley tools. “Prices are high because of steel prices“; Hale is your trusted friend.

This type of false flag marketing is not legal on EBay. You friend selling an item claiming it to be something more valuable than what it really is. You are defending this and using your name on the merchandise. The knife is marketed as a high-grade steel Barnsley tool, not as Woodware Rep. Tool.

Woodware Rep. Tools, I am sure they are good tools. Nevertheless, these are low priced tools compared to Barnsley tools that have a high collector’s value on them.

Who I am, I buy, collect and use new and old leather tools. The people on this site are my good friends, I am grateful to be a member of this great community; we look out for each other. The information is here for everyone to see, I will let each member judge for him or her self.

I am not accusing you of anything, other that you have your name on it. I would not use my name on anything I cannot vouch for. If you did not know or do not stand behind the product,

Just remove your name. It easy to be misleaded, people will understand.

Trox

I made a previous reply to your insinuations and it was not posted. You don't know what you are talking about. I am Busted? For What? I do not receive any monies from Any Tools Sold. The reason why my name is on the knives is because they were made to the lengths I prefer and Mr. Hale thought is would be easier and a novelty to do so. I did not want this because of what you are accusing me of. If you know so much than I bow before you but watch out about your accusations we might meet up some time. If you or anyone else don't like a product or it's price THEN DON"T BUY IT! Mr. Hale has been a good friend of mine for many years and has been frank and honest with people. Who are you and what does anyone know about you?

Frank English

[Art]

I am closing this thread. I already deleted two messages because of threats, Trox has faster fingers than I and copied one before I could delete it. Anything more you guys can take into PM land or whatever.

Art

Moderator