5 In 1 Machine Parts

[Trox]

Hi All, I have two old 5 in 1 combination splitting and cutting machines. The splitting and skiving function works on both of them, the cutting function however, don't work on any of them. They both need new roller knives and maybe the under roller to. I do not know the name of this part, but it is the wheel the roller knives cut on. Both machines look alike, but one is painted red and the maker name is not visible. Do anybody know where I can get new knifes and rollers for these machines? I have seen guides attached on these so they can be used as strap cutters, I never tried to use them for that. Do they work well for cutting straps? In advance thanks for any replays and help.

Trox

Edited September 11, 2012 by Trox

[Trox]

Some more angles, or the wrong angles. I am using a friends laptop with Linux OS, I cannot get the pictures to turn the right way. They are saved the right way on the laptop, however, when I upload them they lay down on their lazy side. Strange! I give up. Please turn your head or PC to look at them. If somebody (who is located not to far away from me, Oslo Norway) needs a machine like this I can part with one of them, for a reasonable price.

Thanks

Trox

[bruce johnson]

I have gotten cutters and feed wheels from Pilgrim Shoe Machine - Here's a link - Pilgrim Shoe Machine .

[Trox]

Thank you Bruce,

I will contact them. Have you used your machines for strap cutting? with use of the guide that can be fitted to the right of the roller knife.

Thanks

Trox

I have gotten cutters and feed wheels from Pilgrim Shoe Machine - Here's a link - Pilgrim Shoe Machine .

[bruce johnson]

Trox,

They are OK for hard heavy leather, but for most leather straps a plough gauge or draw gauge is faster.

[Trox]

Thanks Bruce,

I have both, but I am mostly using my latest Blanchard plough gauge.

Speaking about plough gauges:

The new style Blanchard plough is cutting much better than the Dixon does, it runs true heavy leather like it was butter.

This because of its roller lifting construction, that allows a much more forward angled blade. The blade has a 65 degree forward angle and have an edge only on the left side of the blade. It is flat on the right side. This helps to compress the leather against the guide when cutting.

I know this is of topic, however, I remember we had a discussion about the best kind of knife edge for a plough gauge.

I believe this blade shape is as good as it can bee, the steel is good too. It is a old knife with ebony handle (and a old style of maker name).

Even if this is their latest construction of plough gauge, the same roller lifting construction appears in their year 1900 cataloque (ref. R.A. Salaman, dict. of leather working tools, c. 1700-1950. Fig. 9:12) on a similar plough. I have been comparing this with my Dixon. Even if my Dixon needs a new blade, The P. gauge`s construction only allows a 85 degree forward angle blade in it. The Blanchard roller lifts forward away from the blade and allows a better blade construction.

The blade scores are: Blanchard : 1 - 0 : Dixon

You have, or had every style of plough`gauges, do you agree with this or not?

It is off topic, I know.

Trox

Trox,

They are OK for hard heavy leather, but for most leather straps a plough gauge or draw gauge is faster.

[bruce johnson]

Trox,

Every time I think I have seen most of them, I get another. I sold a Blanchard last week that had the top thumbscrew adjustment tightener like the newer ones, but had a vertical slot for the roller and thumbscrew instead of the lever and cam. It came with a rosewood handle knife andn not the lighter color wood of late. Blanchard seemed to use rosewood or ebony/ebonized wood interchangeably in the older ones.

. As far as using a Blanchard vs. Dixon I don't see a lot of differences. The blade angle is a factor and I think the Blanchards tend to run the leather down due to more of a slicing action. A good adjustment on the roller height compensates for that though. I there is some overkill in the Dixon design. They are too high and most people will never use the top half of the blade. Steel quality - I sure like the old Dixon steel. I am pleasantly surprised by the Blanchards though. Their older round knives and plough knives are good too. At least growing up here, we always heard about Sheffield steel or Solingen steel in our pocketknives and it was supposed to be a quality thing. No kid ever bragged about French steel. If it was around, we didn't hear about it. I am cutting with a Blanchard round knife right now that is just a dandy.

I have had a few email discussions with long time plough gauge users and a few varied insights. It seems like most want the roller about 1 to 1-1/2 cm ahead of the blade at the bottom. They think it seems to flatten the leather into the blade and goes easier. A few want the roller as close to the knife as the can get it to feed directly into the blade. Some like to push down on the strip being cut and push, Others like to pull up slightly on the strip and a couple will pull a bit of a slight twist as they pull to tension the leather at the cut. Any thoughts on this?

As far as bevels, I have heard from a few who want more bevel to one side or the other. Most seem to go with a blade beveled on both sides though. Most of the blades I get are beveled both sides. Another thing I see on Blanchard blades is a small notch on the bottom front of the blade. They seem to be on about a third of the blades. It lets the blade sit further forward in the slot and/or it lets the handle sit at a higher angle in the same slot position. They are low enough that the notch is down in the slot. and not up where the leather would contact the blade. Ever see this over there?

One thing that pretty much everyone agrees on is that in use to watch the leather in contact with the fence instead of looking at the blade cutting. I found the same thing with a draw gauge. The natural tendency is the wacth the action at the blade cutting leather. If the leather is in contact with the guide, the blade will generally take care of itself. I cut a lot more consistantly after I was taught that.

[Trox]

Thanks Bruce,

Sorry for late replay.

I have seen that Blanchard uses both rosewood and ebony on old knifes too, I guess they used what was available. Alternatively, Ebony might have been a more expensive option, who knows. I know that on newer knifes they use palisade. The slice action of the knife, that’s exactly what a knife does best. This also allows the knife to be moved further away from the roller too. This helps controlling a larger area in front of the knife, to keep the leather down on the tool. Yes I agree about the Dixon is a bit of an overkill in the construction. Somebody complained about the frame on the new Blanchard, that it was hollow and not all true solid like earlier models. I think that’s because PG (=Plough Gauge) knifes tend to brake off right over the slot.

I have seen many Blanchard PG knifes with blades, broken like this. The knife handle carries the tool; a lighter construction will reduce the blade brakeage.

Yes when I grew up too, there was mostly talk about Solingen, Sheffield and Mora (Sweden).

Maybe some of the reason for that is the language barrier, French nationalism and perhaps it is also true when it comes to ordinary knifes.

When it comes to saddlery, the French heritage is a model for all European saddlery. (I will not forget the British and German) Here is a link I found in a Danish saddlery firm F. & L. Dalhman`s (Copenhagen, A famous Danish saddlery who made a lot tack for the Danish royalties). You can clearly see how much the early French traditions meant to them.

http://www.sadelmager-dahlman.dk/side32.html

(It is on French, but the pictures tell the story well)

Yes, French was and still is (I believe, I am no expert on this subject) fashion in the European horse world. Tools of the trade also tend to follow that industry. People who pursue the best styles will not be satisfied with bad quality. Generally, when it comes to French industry I always thought of them as inventive and best on designs, but a bit behind on the quality. After I discovered their leather tools, I am of an other opinion, let say I am pleasant surprised, and the quality is great. I do not have any big collection of round knifes I have fifteen. Mostly French, but also English and American. My favorite is a small old Blanchard, no of my others gets that sharp and keeps the edge that long.

When it comes to using the Blanchard PG, I let the Roller spring take care of the roll’s downward pressure, I do not lock it in any position. Then Let the leather ride against the guide. My other hand holds the leather steady on the table in front of the PG (out of the way of the tool of course) I always strop all blades before I use them. I do not take the blade out of the tool, but strop it when it is in the tool. The PG has the latest design; however, the knife has a very dark ebony handle. I have bought it second hand, the knife may be older but it looks like it belongs in the tool. My guess is that it is. I do not aid the cutting with my other hand (other than in the start and finishing of the cut) however; I twist the PG a bit to press the leather against the guide.

My PG knifes do not have that notch you are talking about, but I have seen it before. Both my Blanchard PG knifes has the bevel only on the left side. I guess that to be a matter of taste. Maybe also depended of the wide, thickness and density/ type of leather that is cut. I find that the blades with the left side bevel work good when I cut thin reins. The blade then acts like a boat rudder and steers the leather against the guide. Before I got this one, I used my Draw gauges for these narrow cuts, no I use the Blanchard PG for this job too.

Searching for German tools on the internet, I found this interesting PG: http://www.schein.de/en/produkte/werkzeuge.html?marke=2

(scroll down the site and you will see it)

I guess it is made in Solingen, I thought it was a Don Carlos ”Pik As”. However, I cannot recognize his maker stamp, it is not the same as the Don Carlos.

I have sent a request about it, I will update you when I receive a answer. This looks both nice and well made. I bet it is expensive caused by small scale European production (just a guess).

I do not like the hex screws on it, They should have used thumb screw on the adjustments. It looks like you have to use a hex tool to adjust the wide of the cut. No tool should need the use of another in order to work, that goes for older tools too. How is your custom made Knipschield PG knife working out. I am considering asking him to make one for me too.

Trox

Trox,

Every time I think I have seen most of them, I get another. I sold a Blanchard last week that had the top thumbscrew adjustment tightener like the newer ones, but had a vertical slot for the roller and thumbscrew instead of the lever and cam. It came with a rosewood handle knife andn not the lighter color wood of late. Blanchard seemed to use rosewood or ebony/ebonized wood interchangeably in the older ones.

. As far as using a Blanchard vs. Dixon I don't see a lot of differences. The blade angle is a factor and I think the Blanchards tend to run the leather down due to more of a slicing action. A good adjustment on the roller height compensates for that though. I there is some overkill in the Dixon design. They are too high and most people will never use the top half of the blade. Steel quality - I sure like the old Dixon steel. I am pleasantly surprised by the Blanchards though. Their older round knives and plough knives are good too. At least growing up here, we always heard about Sheffield steel or Solingen steel in our pocketknives and it was supposed to be a quality thing. No kid ever bragged about French steel. If it was around, we didn't hear about it. I am cutting with a Blanchard round knife right now that is just a dandy.

I have had a few email discussions with long time plough gauge users and a few varied insights. It seems like most want the roller about 1 to 1-1/2 cm ahead of the blade at the bottom. They think it seems to flatten the leather into the blade and goes easier. A few want the roller as close to the knife as the can get it to feed directly into the blade. Some like to push down on the strip being cut and push, Others like to pull up slightly on the strip and a couple will pull a bit of a slight twist as they pull to tension the leather at the cut. Any thoughts on this?

As far as bevels, I have heard from a few who want more bevel to one side or the other. Most seem to go with a blade beveled on both sides though. Most of the blades I get are beveled both sides. Another thing I see on Blanchard blades is a small notch on the bottom front of the blade. They seem to be on about a third of the blades. It lets the blade sit further forward in the slot and/or it lets the handle sit at a higher angle in the same slot position. They are low enough that the notch is down in the slot. and not up where the leather would contact the blade. Ever see this over there?

One thing that pretty much everyone agrees on is that in use to watch the leather in contact with the fence instead of looking at the blade cutting. I found the same thing with a draw gauge. The natural tendency is the wacth the action at the blade cutting leather. If the leather is in contact with the guide, the blade will generally take care of itself. I cut a lot more consistantly after I was taught that.

[bruce johnson]

Trox,

Thanks for your insight and experiences, I appreciate it. I am still liking the Dixon style plough gauge knife that Terry Knipschield made for me. The edge has held up well and have only stropped it. As a heads up, I sent Terry a Blanchard plough gauge and he is getting the pattern for that style knife also. He is busy making knives for the Boot and Saddlemakers Show coming up and has a few other things going too. He is making a knife that is patterned after my favorite Rose. My wife said it came today, and the clock can't roll fast enough this afternoon anyway.

[Trox]

And thank you Bruce for yours.

I understand your excitement he make the most beautiful knifes, it is Christmas all over for you tonight. I hope to see both PG knifes in their tools here later, maybe you will post some pictures of them later.

Thanks

Trox

Trox,

Thanks for your insight and experiences, I appreciate it. I am still liking the Dixon style plough gauge knife that Terry Knipschield made for me. The edge has held up well and have only stropped it. As a heads up, I sent Terry a Blanchard plough gauge and he is getting the pattern for that style knife also. He is busy making knives for the Boot and Saddlemakers Show coming up and has a few other things going too. He is making a knife that is patterned after my favorite Rose. My wife said it came today, and the clock can't roll fast enough this afternoon anyway.