Selling at Renaissance Faires

[UKRay]

I was wondering if anyone could share their experience of selling at Renaissance/Medieval Fairs as I understand there are some pretty strict guidlines about authenticity. Does this apply to the products you sell as well as the tent you display them in? (some kind of Jury perhaps?). Hopefully we have one or two traders here who can help?

Some idea what sort of tent is acceptable would help a lot and so would some guidelines of the sort of products that can be or are already sold. What sort of leathergoods can be purchased?

I'd also be very interested to see some trader's stalls from this kind of event in the US and elsewhere to get an idea how you guys do it and how the stalls compare to those at events on this side of the pond - can anyone oblige with a picture or two?

I have attached a few pics from a medieval event held here in the UK to give you an idea what I mean:

[ferret]

Depends on the venue and who's organising it. Unless they specify "living history" standards you can get away with almost anything as long as there's no safety risk. Same goes for products, though I wouldn't try selling a re-enactor anything made from chrome tan. If you are going to put buckles on anything go for brass/bronze "D" shape (authentic even before the romans got here). If they insist on costume go for a long robe/kirtle (saves trying to make authentic hose which is a pain). If it is "living history" best forget it, you'll spend far more on kit than you'll ever make back, then some authenticity orifice will tell you the carefully researched thing you've made isn't right (while ignoring the "viking" wearing cowboy boots and a ww1 bayonet).

[whinewine]

I was wondering if anyone could share their experience of selling at Renaissance/Medieval Fairs as I understand there are some pretty strict guidlines about authenticity. Does this apply to the products you sell as well as the tent you display them in? (some kind of Jury perhaps?). Hopefully we have one or two traders here who can help?

Some idea what sort of tent is acceptable would help a lot and so would some guidelines of the sort of products that can be or are already sold. What sort of leathergoods can be purchased?

I'd also be very interested to see some trader's stalls from this kind of event in the US and elsewhere to get an idea how you guys do it and how the stalls compare to those at events on this side of the pond - can anyone oblige with a picture or two?

I have attached a few pics from a medieval event held here in the UK to give you an idea what I mean:

We (Where Dragons Tread) are too small at this point to be able to sell the quantity necessary to maintain stock for the number of weekends the large fairs run, so we do small 1,2 day events instead. The Pennsylvania Renaissance Faire, for instance, runs for (I believe) 14 consecutive weekends. EZups are NOT permitted there, only Panther Primitives & the like. The first year at the PA renfaire, you must have an approved tent, the second year, you must build a structure (I can't offhand remember if 2nd year is just a platform & temporary structure & 3rd year & beyond is the permanent structure, but a structure is required in that second year, anyway).

Items must be handmade/handcrafted- NO resale (shit made overseas in some fourth world country & resold as being made by the craftsman himself/herself- like some of the stuff you find at many 'professional' flea markets that are open all year round.).

Demonstrating is a definite plus & does draw crowds.

Dressing in period costume is mandatory for vendors (& many/most faire goers also dress in costume). Most vendors also have full-time shops, with employees, so they can maintain the quantity of goods necessary for all 14 weekends.

Weapons usually must be 'peace tied', & some faires specify 'no weapons'. Find out first before you try to come in dressed as an executioner with a real axe...

We usually go at least 1 weekend every year to the PA Renfaire, as we know some of the vendors from a small faire we did together several years ago & we like to visit with them.

Ray, what you might do to get a better feel for what is/is not required (because each faire may have many different requirements) is to google 'renaissance faire', 'Pennsylvania Renaissance Faire', Great Lakes Renaissance Faire'...etc, then download the vendor applications to get an idea of requirements & rents at the various events.

russ

Edited August 11, 2008 by whinewine

[fishguy]

I did some selling at SCA tournaments rather than other "Rennisance Fairs" and had a pretty good time. The SCA has standards for authenticity in terms of setting up your stall, pop-ups are allowable, but the prefer you make it look as period as possible(there is usually some award for best stall). You are expected to dress in period costume, and stock goods that are reasonably period. With the SCA you have around 1000 years to work with. I focused on pouches, sheaths, quivers, bracers, and sounding horns (made from cattle horn). Sold a few things, the more I went to the more I sold (people became familar with me). Some people appear to make a significant amount of money selling at these things, enough to keep going anyway. Other than the products I tried, belts are very popular, and there is a real need for affordable period shoes. Haven't gone to any in a couple of years (shifted to cowboy gunbelts and blackpowder bags), but I found them to be quite enjoyable and the people were nice and pretty easy to work with. You can find guidelines , schedules, etc. on the web.

[Michael Sheldon]

I do several faires as an actor, not vendor, but I spend a bit of time with the vendors.

Every faire has different rules. Contact the ones you are interested in, and ask them about rules for vending. Some are extremely strict, others have practically no rules at all. Some I attend will allow vendors with no costumes, ez-ups and cheap import crap with no bearing on the time period. One that I attend requires first that the vendor be juried by the other vendors, and that each and every item sold be approved, the items must be made by the business owner, and the business owner or an employee of the owner must actually run the booth. The vendors also must follow the same costume guidelines as the actors.

The advantage to the less strict faires is that it's easier to get into for a small, new vendor.

The advantage to the more strict faires is that you won't be competing with mass-produced import crap, and the most strict will limit how many vendors of a type are there, so you won't have another leather shop right next door to you. Of course, they're also much harder to get into, and have higher overhead costs (tent, garb, etc).

[UKRay]

It sounds like every show has its own 'take' on the way history is presented - It isn't clear who, exactly, makes the rules? Do they generally have a panel of experienced historians or is this more an 'ad hoc' thing that relies on someone having read a few historic novels?

I'm interested in your experiences with Living History groups, Ferret. It sounds like you have had a bad experience or two there. What happened?

Very grateful for the 'heads up' about the big Ren. Fayres. Thanks Whinewine. They look fantastic but they may be a bit daunting for a 'first timer'. One of the websites says they have around 100 traders at their event - this suggests that the competition is very hot and prices are cut to the bone. Is this true? You also suggest that the quantity of merchandise sold at these events is enormous - can you elaborate a little please? Anyone got any experience of stock turnover / potential revenues?

Can you tell me more about the smaller fayres please - how many traders usually attend and what do they sell?

Having checked them out, I've added the URLs for the biggies you mentioned to make things easier for folk to follow:

www.parenfaire.com

www.medievalfaire.com

Your info on the sort of products that sell is invaluable, Fishguy - many thanks. I'm interested that you say some traders make a significant amount of money - what makes them successful? Is it quality? Price? Volume sales? Are those who don't make much money just there for the fun?

Michael, the costume issues are a concern for me as I don't know much about period costume and it seems such an integral part of these events. I would like to do things properly so has anyone got any advice for a beginner? What will 'pass muster'? What is to be avoided at all costs?

What about period shoes - where can they be purchased - better still, does anyone have a medieval shoe pattern they would share?

Thanks for all your help guys!

Edited August 13, 2008 by UKRay

[wildrose]

Actually, I've sold at the PA Renaissance Faire, and I do have an EZ Up. But you're not supposed to have plastic (i.e. signs, bags) at your booth. And you're encouraged to decorate the tent as much as possible to have it not look quite so modern.

[whinewine]

Actually, I've sold at the PA Renaissance Faire, and I do have an EZ Up. But you're not supposed to have plastic (i.e. signs, bags) at your booth. And you're encouraged to decorate the tent as much as possible to have it not look quite so modern.

Ok, I have been told that no ezups were permitted, & truthfully, I've never seen ANY ezups there, although I certainly could be mistaken... If I am, sorry, I apologize.

I did also double-checked with my son (who goes many more times than I), & he also confirms that no ezups are allowed & also has never seen one there (the internal roof struts are VERY distinctive & hard to hide, btw).

Having said that, I must note that there are a bunch of non-faire events that permit non-regulars to display their stuff= there is a 'Celtic Fling & Highland Games' event, a 'Great Green America Fest', a 'Great Pennsylvania Flavor Fest', a 'Raptors on Tour' event... & so on... These are generally one or two day events & are not part of the regular faire, per se. They allow someone who doesn't have the amount of stock necessary or $$$ necessary to showcase their talents for a very short period of time for a lot less money. These people are not the regular faire vendors that one sees on each & every weekend there. Their requirements are different.

Ray: yes, competition is high, vendor rents are high & so are the prices. People go there to enjoy, & to BUY. The quality of merchandise is very high & because so many, many people attend, one needs to have a sizeable quantity of quality stock to be able to last for the entire 14 weekends. At the last event my son & I did, we blew away the other 3 leathercrafting concerns (and btw, they had been attending this particular event years before we started- this is only our second year there-) & seriously cut into the stock we had brought with us- and people were running up & buying items even as we were packing up to leave at the end of this two day event.

These events are very different than your basic flea market venue, where vendors are routinely undercutting each other to try to make a sale.

The caveat on this is, however, you need to price to what the market will bear... I would NOT be able to sell some of my wares at the smaller events for the same prices I'd have to charge if I were in one of the BIG faires. People will simply not spend that kind of money at a small event, whereas, they expect (and WILL) pay for the same item at a big event. I think it's the psychological association/mystique to the BIG EVENT.

I can't really say what events are good & what ones are not. If the potential clientele have no idea what a renfaire is, & more importantly, absolutely would not be caught dead in costume- ever- then this kind of an event is going to be a bust. Once, a bunch of us vendors went to a restaurant afterward and a customer made a very loud comment about men in skirts (I wear a kilt)= the comment came from a guy wearing a red tee shirt with his belly hanging over his camoflage pants which were being held up with brown suspenders= when you're in this kind of environment, ya kinda know where you stand.

My suggestion is to stay away from FIRST TIME FAIRES!!! They MAY be ok, but there is a better than normal chance that they're NOT! I refuse to do a first time faire unless I get sizeable concessions or I don't do it. The very first faire we ever did was a first time event put on by a man whose answer to dealing with problems (& by gosh, there were many) was to run away from you & all the other vendors and hide in his office. Dollar wise, we lost our asses on that one.

Sorry I ramble, but I'm merely bringing up some pitfalls.

P.S.: as far as shoes go, sandals blend in well. I can't see purchasing a pair of custom boots that begin at $500 USD for a simple, 1 button pair (I would love to have a custom 5 or 6 side-button pair of faire boots, with antique silver coins for buttons & exotic leathers in the construction, but I just can't justify the over $2000 USD it would cost me just for a part for my costume.) If the weather is warm, I wear Teva sandles, if it's cold out, I use non-descript, scuffed hunting boots. So far, no one has complained.

russ

Edited August 13, 2008 by whinewine

[wildrose]

It's certainly possible they don't allow them anymore at PARF, but speaking from personal experience they did (it was 4 yrs ago)...

[ferret]

I'm interested in your experiences with Living History groups, Ferret. It sounds like you have had a bad experience or two there. What happened?

I'll reply in pm, don't want to get into a long rant over something that has little to do with leather.

This is a brief summary some wit came up with.

Edited August 14, 2008 by ferret

[wildrose]

LOL Ferret, that's funny!

My thoughts on the original question (and by the way, UKRay, you come up with good ones!): I guess Ren.Faires are in their way alot like other festivals of any time period: you have to go by the regs that the organizers put in place. If you want to vend, you have to be willing to do that. BUT, you also may have to be willing to "look the other way" if the organizers decide to let it slip and let in tshirt vendors and the like (i.e. folks who surely are NOT making their own wares)

[hivemind]

I've been to quite a few faires, and have inquired at several about becoming a vendor. This is a link to my "local" faire: http://sterlingfestival.com/

Here's a link to their vendor requirements: http://sterlingfestival.com/ArtisanInfo/ta...Default.aspx#A2

It looks pretty lucrative to me, provided you can come up with enough stock to cover all seven weekends. This place has at least a half-dozen leather vendors of various flavors:

One sells MASSIVELY overpriced stuff (think $2000 sleeveless coats and $1200 sleeveless jerkins) mostly made of garment leather on a machine.

Another sells handmade waterformed and airbrushed masks, which range from a simple Lone Ranger mask to incredibly ornate headpieces that range from $25 to many hundreds of dollars.

Another is two guys who do really nice tooling/stamping on belts and small waterformed pouches. I like them, and they have reasonable prices. A handtooled belt with a solid brass buckle will run you between $50 and $90 if I recall correctly. I bought a very nice pouch, basketweave stamp with cobbled edges, for $42 a few weeks ago.

There's a place that sells boots ranging from $500 to $2000.

And a place that seems to exist only to see how skimpy of leather halter tops they can get women to try on.

I'm going back there on Sunday with the wife and some friends, I'll see if I can remember to snap you a bunch of photos.

[hivemind]

So I took a few pics for you. I missed the boot sellers, and also forgot about the mask guy. But I got three other places for you to check out.

Edited August 19, 2008 by hivemind

[hivemind]

[wildrose]

Ever seen Larry and Leenie's Lusty Leather? Great workmanship and fun folks. I was vending next to them at NJRK one year.

[UKRay]

Sorry Wildrose - Larry and Leenie went right over my head! - maybe they haven't made it to the UK yet? Who are they?

That was really quite a photographic expedition, Hivemind. I am so impressed! it has really given me a taste for the sort of leatherwork on sale at these events. Many thanks.

Those butterfly hair barrettes are absolutely beautiful. It must take hours to stain 'em. The plain belts also looked good and were easy to see and buy.

The pictures did throw up a few questions though... (okay, 'no surprise there', I can hear you say). My sole intention here is to find the best way to display and sell my own goods and I find it helps me to critique other displays. I'm not saying I could do any better but I need to understand what ought to be changed to make the goods look more attractive before I build my own displays. I do try to be objective and look for the best side of things but ultimately I want to do the job better and sell more stuff.

For those who may be interested, my observations follow:

I definitely felt that a lot of time and care had been spent making the stuff on display. It looked well designed and well finished but much of it didn't seem to be displayed particularly well.

Leaving aside the garment rails - I guess there is only so much you can do with a coat hanger - the hanging belt displays were good and colorful but a bit too 'busy' for me and the wide belts on the rough looking shelf definitely underwhelmed me. Such a shame as the belts looked nicely colored and well put together and I really liked that antler fastening idea.

The wristbands/bracelts/cuffs on the wooden shelves looked untidy and didn't make me want to get closer and check 'em out. IMHO I felt the lovely pointy bottomed bags and other nice looking bits were let down by the sagging green cloth and a lack of presentation.

I thought the pouches looked like they had been made, quickly, for the event and displayed without any thought to asthetics.

On the plus side, the overall quality of the workmanship looked really excellent and some of the designs were outstanding. Once again the bar has been raised and I'm just hoping I can compete. Right now I'm losing faith in my ability to jump high enough...

What did others think of the displays in the pictures? What could you change in order to to sell more stuff?

[wildrose]

http://www.lustyleather.com/Our_Shop.html is a link to Larry and Leenie's site, with a pic of their set up at the top corner. I wish they had more pics, but I didn't surf the site much, so they might. I was next to these folks for a season at the New Jersey Renaissance Kingdom, and have seen them at several other events. They are really terrific, and their workmanship isn't bad either!

BTW, on the other thread, when you were talking credit card processing, I forgot to mention I used First Data and Discover Merchant Services, and they were pretty good. It just was that over time I had to cut costs, and moving here I've not established an account yet.

[Windy]

What did others think of the displays in the pictures? What could you change in order to to sell more stuff?

I can tell you that I never pay attention to what

the product is setting on. I made a beautiful set

of display stands for a potter a couple of years

ago. They really set her booth off , which led me

to wonder why others set there stuff on concrete

blocks holding 2x10 shelves. Well just a year later

I was at a wood working show. As I walked around

looking at things my girlfriend pointed out the display

stands holding the stuff. Much to my chagrin I had

not noticed even though they were made of wood

and darn nice looking. I discovered that day that I

only notice the display table/case if the work is of

no interest to me. In other words the only one who

sees your table is the one who is not looking at your

work. While I am here giving my most humble opinion

I would also like to say that I for one disagree with

whomever it was who said you can not sell high

priced items at a small venue. I can tell you when

I see something I like, I do not say "oh no I can

not buy that here cause this is a flea market and

I just can not spend five hundred bucks at a flea

market" . What kind of logic is that. Mercy sakes

if someone sees something they like they will buy

it if they can afford it. Once again this is my most

humble opinion. If you do top quality work , no one

will care if you set it on a ugly table or sell it at a

flea market.

WINDY

[UKRay]

If you do top quality work , no one

will care if you set it on a ugly table or sell it at a

flea market.

WINDY

I can't help but agree with you about top end leathergoods Windy, and I respect your wide knowledge of display building but, as I am fully aware, my work doesn't fall into the same class as some of our highly esteemed fellow posters. My regular production stuff simply couldn't be compared with the high end work we see here so frequently - but that doesn't mean I don't think it is sellable - more importantly, I want it to have every chance possible of catching a buyer's eye. Frankly, I don't care if they come over to look at the way the display was built or to check out the fabric I've used to cover my table as long as they buy something!

If I took your advice I feel I could be putting myself at a disadvantage - which, IMHO, is not a good position to sell from. How do other people feel about this?

[ArtS]

WOW! How long does it take to put together an inventory like that?

I'd be dead before I could make all that! I am very impressed.

ArtS

[hivemind]

Art, many of these shops at ren faires work on a sort of "apprenticeship" system. This means that there's a guy who owns the shop, and he takes in "apprentices", then works them like dogs for little pay. The bonus for the apprentices is that they get to learn how to make the nuts-and0bolts stuff, and that they can usually get into the faire for free. There's a whole lifestyle that goes along with being involved with big production faires in the US. Many of the vendors and performers are free-spirited, off-the-grid type people who travel around the country from faire to faire. Lots of the vendors and performers from the faire I took the pictures at (Sterling Renaissance Festival, near Oswego, New York) will pack up their stuff after seven weeks in Sterling, head back to where ever home is for a week or so, then they'll head to Pennsylvania for Penn Ren, and spend another eight or so weeks there. Then they move on to another faire. But anyway, suffice it to say that most of the vendors at the faire have a whole troupe of "apprentices" slaving away for them simply for the privilege of being inducted into the faire lifestyle. They're the 21st century version of carnies or a traveling circus.

As for the presentation bit, the shops at Sterling are hampered by having no lighting. They're not allowed to use electric lights at all, nor visible cash registers. They hide their credit card machines below the counters and write out hand receipts for most everything. The smaller shops, like the guys selling the butterfly barrettes and the nicely stamped belts and pouches, actually are better off than most in their small three-walled booth. The larger a shop gets, the more enclosed it gets, by necessity, and the darker it gets.

[Daggrim]

OK, I've been doing Renfaires for 4 years, single weekend, and multiple weekend faires, and here's my experience with merchandise display. The display is critical. I'm not even speaking about quality of display material, but about just where and how the merchandise is displayed. You absolutely need a feel for how a customers eyes will rove thru your space. I have doubled the sales of certain items by moving them to a different location in my tent.

It needs to be absolutely clear, at a glance, just exactly what the item is, without asking them to read anything. I have separated my headbands and my chokers to opposite sides of my space, because no amount of signage would help people tell them apart. Lotsa people were trying to get small chokers around their heads. I'm the same way in a strange space. There's so much to see that I just look at the objects.

Also, clutter is deadly. When I layed out thirty headbands, people ignored them. They looked cheap. When I laid out fifteen headbands, they looked more valuable, and people bought them. I also use visual ques to separate similar objects into distinct groups. I lay each group on a different color tablecloth. Simple, but effective.

Also, the heights of the displays need to have variety. I have about 5 different levels for the eye to roam across. My display materials are plain, decorated with spots of colored fabric. Really nothing expensive, or fancy. Mostly it has to be mobile and collapsible.

Y'gotta keep experimenting. Over the run of a 5 weekend faire, I tuned up my display constantly, after observing how people walked thru my space. Eventually, I had it dialed in, and people were exploring my merchandise with ease, and missing nothing. Ideally, it should almost work automatically, with the merchant not needing to guide people around.

Daggrim

[Daggrim]

One last thing...shoes. I make turnshoes, but I'm swamped right now. I'd recommend the following website. Lady Oren's prices are very reasonable, and her product is a good one. She doesn't attend RF's, so her overhead is tiny, and keeps her prices down. http://ladyorensmedievalshoes.com

Dag

[Prince]

I kinda skimmed this so if I'm repeating something forgive me. I think it bears mentioning that not all fairs are period. Some are fantasy and/or a blend between fantasy and history. The Texas Renaissance Festival is one of the largest in the US, I think it's the largest in land size (in the world I think, with something like 54 acres) and second in rank something with else (like patrons/visitors, number of shops, can't remember) I could be mistaken either way but it's definitely big and it's a fantasy and historic themed fair. Fantasy more towards the Middle Earth tone vs. a SciFi fantasy. Pretty nice fair all around.

But I happen to have a bad taste in my mouth since I sort of partnered with someone pursuing a venture at some festivals and lost a very large sum of money. So I may be biased when I say working a festival changes the experience for the worse. Kills the fun of it. Sounds like you don't have the same idea many have of thinking since it's so fun to attend a fair, it must be wonderful to work it. It can be but it's not all fun and games for sure. I was mainly an investor and didn't do many sales but from what I did do and what I observed it's mostly standing behind a counter, answering ridiculous questions (though granted we were selling custom swords and armor and most people have many misconceptions about them so it likely wouldn't be the same for more general items) and beyond that, if you don't have hired help, good luck with a rest room break or food break.

To my knowledge regulations are pretty technically strict, probably to cover the fair owner's basis, but you can get away with a lot if you don't cause problems, or if you do cause problems and if you're well liked you can get away with stuff too lol.

As I said, I lost a lot of money, but that's not due to lack of patronage or clientele, mainly it was due to my business partner getting wrapped up in nonsense and never taking care of business, so that aside, I think there is a big potential for profit at fairs. I may be providing some products to a vendor at the fair there this year so I'm still willing to stick my foot in the door to see how that goes. Frankly though, I have no interest in managing a shop. Online sales are good enough for me to stick with just that, and I can choose my clients as a bonus (I get some odd requests after all). But some extra revenue at the trade off of tedium, making a load of basic stuff, might not be a bad thing if it pays off well enough. At the festivals i know of, there are permanent buildings instead of tents. Still some tents here and there, but most of the buildings are built as a facade of historic construction. Most buildings are owned privately by each different business though the fair retains rights to seize the shops at their will (sounds dangerous but if they did that, nobody would work their fairs so it's not a big risk). The shop I was involved with I believe was priced at $28K. Pretty sick huh? Especially when you consider it's only used 6-8 weeks out of the year. So while there's a lot of profit to be made, it costs a lot. or it can anyway. plenty of people just haul in carts and set up tables here and there.

I don't know your exact situation and what size of fair you are checking out but talk to the fair's crafts coordinator to see if you need to be jurried in and if he/she thinks your products will have a good chance of selling, or if the market for your item is flooded, etc. They can usually help you with tips. Your best bet is to call the fair office and ask for the coordinator or someone who can answer your questions. The UK fairs may be entirely different than over here and the advice given may be incompatible.

[UKRay]

Daggrim, many thanks, that has to be some of the most useful advice I've seen on this topic. I firmly believe that anything I can do to raise the perceived value of the goods has to be worth a shot. Your comments about reducing clutter and just laying out a few items to raise their value bears out my own thinking and gives a practical way to achieve more sales. Have you found any particular colours useful when laying out goods on a cloth? In other words, which background colours produce most interest and hopefuly the best results?

The height thing is also very interesting. How do you achieve the different display heights? Have you any pictures of your stand so I can understand this better?

Azmal, thanks for the advice. I have been talking to a number of show organisers / craft co-ordinators as you suggested and they have been very helpful.

More stall pictures guys - please!