Needle Thread Won't Pick Up The Bobbin Thread On Tippmann Boss

[bydeniss]

Hi,

Today I got my Tippmann Boss sewing machine. It came by post from U.S. I am in Turkey. I followed all set up/installation instructions but needle thread won't pick up the bobbin thread at all. I cannot call the customer service, everybody is on holiday as they state on their FaceBook fan page and anyway it would be very expensive to call from overseas. Until now I just used home sewing machines. Any help/advice on this matter would be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Chief31794]

Make sure you pull about 2" out of the bobbin, then make sure you hold the end of the needle thread and it should be out about 2" as well. Cycle the machine and it should pick up the bobbin thread and then you pull it through the plate by pulling on the needle thread. If not, you may not have the bobbin installed properly, make sure the thread slips in under the little pressure clip on the side of the bobbin case. Hope this helps.

Chief

Edited December 31, 2012 by Chief31794

[trekster]

Please my PM to you.

Hold about 6 to 8 inches of needle thread to the right of the needle and slightly to the rear. At this time, do not route the needle thread UNDER the presser foot. It is also important to not put too much tension on the needle thread as you hold it to the right, and while you cycle the machine. If you pull too hard on the thread it will not be able to form the loop that the shuttle hook must pick up. Cycle the machine and you will feel the needle thread pulled towards the needle as the needle drops through the needle plate. Hold the thread lightly and let it move towards the needle.

If the machine is threaded correctly and tensions are set as outlined in the manual, the needle thread should pick up the bobbin thread and it will pull through the hole in the needle plate.

If it still won't come up... simply route the end of the bobbin thread up through the hole in the needle plate manually. Then route both threads under the presser foot and try some test stitching in some scrap material. Check and see if the machine will actually stitch through some test material. If it does not, you probably have some other problems that need to be looked at.

Edited December 31, 2012 by trekster

[mlapaglia]

Make sure your bobbin thread is coming off the bobbin counter clockwise. If not turn it upside down and put it back in the bobbin case.

[TwinOaks]

Another thing to check is that the needle is installed correctly. If the needle is NOT correctly installed, the hook can't pick up the thread.

[Sylvia]

I've also seen videos of people not fully pulling the handle toward them.... while simultaneously complaining it won't pull up the bobbin thread and won't stitch.

Here is a troubleshooting video.

Here is a video of a woman correctly working the handle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tjZLGoLnIk

[bydeniss]

Thank you everybody. I took the machine to a sewing machine repair center. They said the timing was off. That's why the needle thread didn't pick up the bobbin thread. Anyway, it seems it is the first Tippmann Boss sewing machine that made it to Turkey...

[trekster]

Seems a bit peculiar that a new Boss from the factory would have a timing problem of that magnitude. Was this a used machine from a previous owner?

[mlapaglia]

There is very little timing that needs adjustment on a Boss unless a part is broken. Can you post a picture of the bobbin shuttle area. Make sure the handle is pushed all the way back before you take the picture.

Michael

[oldtimer]

Trekster, I bought a brand new Boss from the factory years ago, and it sounded and felt like it had a handful of gravel inside, so I´m not surprised ! Had to change the gear rack that was partly broken.The support to customers outside the US is almost non existant !

Edited January 2, 2013 by oldtimer

[trekster]

  On 1/2/2013 at 6:55 PM, oldtimer said:

Trekster, I bought a brand new Boss from the factory years ago, and it sounded and felt like it had a handful of gravel inside, so I´m not surprised ! Had to change the gear rack that was partly broken.The support to customers outside the US is almost non existant !

With a broken rack gear, I suppose it did sound quite awful. Are you inferring the unit was sent from the factory with the broken rack gear; thereby indicating poor Quality Control on the part of Tippmann? Or, could it have suffered shipping damage before it reached you? Those are two very different scenarios with two very different "cause" factors.

In either case, I fail to see the connection between you receiving a unit with a broken rack gear, and the overall support to non-USA customers. Even if a phone call to their toll-free number is too expensive, I've never personally experienced ignored questions through their email. Perhaps I've just been lucky.

[bydeniss]

Trekster, you are definitely lucky I firstly contacted Tippmann on their Facebook page, asking if they would ship to Turkey. They replied but not fast, and I had to wait a 3-4-7 days for each reply. When I was sent a pro-forma invoice, instead of a boss, there was a propane hammer on the invoice. Then I decided to call them and I talked to Matt. He corrected the invoice, added the missing items and the boss and the accessories were pretty fast dispatched. If you are in U.S. their customer service is Ok, but I cannot afford hours of conversation on the phone, plus I am not a native English speaker and I am not so familiar with some technical terms.

But it took looong time to reach me, I guess because of the busy time of the Winter Holidays and the postal services were busy.

The guy from the repair center said the timing was off, also the bobbin shuttle was moving too much, he showed me some weak points and the first parts that would need to be replaced (in his opinion...). I hope he will be wrong.

When I "squeeze" the handle to lift the foot, I feel like I need to be Popeye the Sailor and eat a lot of spinach.Does this happen with your Boss too?

Now, when I sew, when the needle enters the leather, the needle thread forms a loop, which disappears when the needles lifts up back. Is that normal?

[mlapaglia]

The most common cause of a loop like you described is not pushing the handle all the way back at the end of each stroke. What side thread and needle are you using?

There are a few points, like the rack gear, that are designed to break if the machine develops a problem. This prevents something expensive from breaking.

How did you fix your thread pickup problem?

[trekster]

  On 1/3/2013 at 9:14 AM, bydeniss said:

Trekster, you are definitely lucky I firstly contacted Tippmann on their Facebook page, asking if they would ship to Turkey. They replied but not fast, and I had to wait a 3-4-7 days for each reply. When I was sent a pro-forma invoice, instead of a boss, there was a propane hammer on the invoice. Then I decided to call them and I talked to Matt. He corrected the invoice, added the missing items and the boss and the accessories were pretty fast dispatched. If you are in U.S. their customer service is Ok, but I cannot afford hours of conversation on the phone, plus I am not a native English speaker and I am not so familiar with some technical terms.

But it took looong time to reach me, I guess because of the busy time of the Winter Holidays and the postal services were busy.

The guy from the repair center said the timing was off, also the bobbin shuttle was moving too much, he showed me some weak points and the first parts that would need to be replaced (in his opinion...). I hope he will be wrong.

When I "squeeze" the handle to lift the foot, I feel like I need to be Popeye the Sailor and eat a lot of spinach.Does this happen with your Boss too?

Now, when I sew, when the needle enters the leather, the needle thread forms a loop, which disappears when the needles lifts up back. Is that normal?

I too have found that Tippmann is not very timely with their responses to questions put on their Facebook page. That is unfortunate for people like yourself that do not have the same avenues for correspondence that we in the States have. I do know that the Tippmann folks were off for several days around the Christmas and New Years holidays, so they were not available to anyone. They are back now, though.

I don't know what the serviceman meant when he said the "shuttle was moving too much". He probably has zero experience with a Tippmann Boss. The shuttle on ALL machines has some "play" in it, because the teeth on the rack gear are not perfectly tight with the teeth on the gear of the shuttle bar shaft. This normal, and can be observed in all machines.

Yes, when operating the hand lever to lift the presser foot, it does require a fair amount force because you are compressing a very strong coil spring just above the presser foot bar. Also, if you have a "lot" of tension screwed into the presser foot adjustor, that will make it slightly harder to squeeze the handle.

If a loop is forming when the needle enters the leather, there are basically two things that can cause such a problem. One, you may not have "finished" the upstroke from the previous stitch, so that the rack gear touches the limit bolt on the top of the machine. I doubt that is your problem, but it could be. The other thing that can cause the loop to form is the take-up lever is out of adjustment, and is not being raised to the full top position at the end of your upstroke. It is easy to check for this condition, and easy to fix. The Troubleshooting DVD that came with your machine shows you how to do it, and how to check it for proper operation. If you can't find the instructions on the DVD, PM me and I will tell you how it is done.

[bydeniss]

I saw that if I apply pressure with my my finger on the thread, just on the left side, between the 2 screws, the loop problem seems to be solved, but I cannot keep my finger there while stitching...

[trekster]

  On 1/3/2013 at 3:38 PM, bydeniss said:

I saw that if I apply pressure with my my finger on the thread, just on the left side, between the 2 screws, the loop problem seems to be solved, but I cannot keep my finger there while stitching...

Well, no... that is not the fix for the problem.

Without any material in the machine (and you really don't even need thread in the machine)... hold the operating handle against the stop in the full UP direction. Now take your left hand and while holding the handle tight against the stop; see if you can move the take-up lever UP and DOWN. If it moves up and down even a little, that is what is causing the loop in your needle thread as you make a down-stroke. The problem can be fixed by adjusting the bracket located on the needle bar shaft. Refer to the Tippmann Troubleshooting DVD to see how to do that.

I'm assuming you have the DVD, as it should have been included with a new machine.

Edited January 3, 2013 by trekster

[bydeniss]

  On 1/3/2013 at 4:02 PM, trekster said:

Well, no... that is not the fix for the problem.

Without any material in the machine (and you really don't even need thread in the machine)... hold the operating handle against the stop in the full UP direction. Now take your left hand and while holding the handle tight against the stop; see if you can move the take-up lever UP and DOWN. If it moves up and down even a little, that is what is causing the loop in your needle thread as you make a down-stroke. The problem can be fixed by adjusting the bracket located on the needle bar shaft. Refer to the Tippmann Troubleshooting DVD to see how to do that.

I'm assuming you have the DVD, as it should have been included with a new machine.

I tried that but the take-up lever won't move. I discovered another solution: I squeezed a small piece of sponge in the thread guide H. It works until the small piece of sponge falls down, the re-place again the sponge....

trekster, thank you very much for your assistance. I can not say enough how much I appreciate it. I saw a post with a problem that looks same :

http://leatherworker...showtopic=38480

but I checked my machine and I have AR-49 spring...

Edited January 3, 2013 by bydeniss

[trekster]

  On 1/3/2013 at 4:28 PM, bydeniss said:

I tried that but the take-up lever won't move. I discovered another solution: I squeezed a small piece of sponge in the thread guide H. It works until the small piece of sponge falls down, the re-place again the sponge....

Yes, there are two types of springs that apply tension to the take-up lever. The old style was a spring that actually lifted the take-up arm to the upper position. If your machine is brand new, then it should have the new style spring in it. The new style spring DOES NOT physically lift the take-up arm, but rather applies "compression" tension to the lever. If this new style spring is not adjusted properly, it WILL cause the loop problem. The spring was changed to the new design in order to allow the machine to better handle a greater range of thread sizes.

Please do the following and tell me what happens.... Without material under the needle, lift the operating handle to the top-most position. Watch the end of the take-up lever where the thread goes through it. Now slowly lower the handle until the needle is just about ready to go through the needle plate. Did the take-up lever move down AT ALL? (this can be done with or without thread in the take-up lever)

If the take-up lever moved, or fell down a little as you were lowering the handle, that is the problem causing the loop. To fix it, you will need to adjust the compression spring that is applying tension to the lever. Let me know what happened and I'll tell you how to adjust the spring - if it needs adjustment.

Edited January 3, 2013 by trekster

[bydeniss]

  On 1/3/2013 at 4:58 PM, trekster said:

Please do the following and tell me what happens.... Without material under the needle, lift the operating handle to the top-most position. Watch the end of the take-up lever where the thread goes through it. Now slowly lower the handle until the needle is just about ready to go through the needle plate. Did the take-up lever move down AT ALL? (this can be done with or without thread in the take-up lever)

If the take-up lever moved, or fell down a little as you were lowering the handle, that is the problem causing the loop. To fix it, you will need to adjust the compression spring that is applying tension to the lever. Let me know what happened and I'll tell you how to adjust the spring - if it needs adjustment.

Yes, the take-up lever moved down almost 1 inch.

[bydeniss]

  On 1/3/2013 at 4:58 PM, trekster said:

Please do the following and tell me what happens.... Without material under the needle, lift the operating handle to the top-most position. Watch the end of the take-up lever where the thread goes through it. Now slowly lower the handle until the needle is just about ready to go through the needle plate. Did the take-up lever move down AT ALL? (this can be done with or without thread in the take-up lever)

When I lower the handle, also the Arm-Bracket Thread Take-Up CAR-11 is moving down and then the take-up lever has no support and that's why is moving down...

[trekster]

  On 1/3/2013 at 5:40 PM, bydeniss said:

When I lower the handle, also the Arm-Bracket Thread Take-Up CAR-11 is moving down and then the take-up lever has no support and that's why is moving down...

I think you mean AR-11, rather than CAR-11. Yes, when you move the operating handle down, the Bracket will come away from supporting the AR-12 Lever, but it should actually remain in the UP position until the needle thread actually pulls it down. If the Lever is falling down without the thread actually pulling it down, then this if what will cause the loop going into the material.

I AM ASSUMING YOU HAVE THE LATER VERSION OF TAKE-UP ARM SPRING (Compression Type)! If your machine has the old spring in it, the following instructions DO NOT apply. (A new machine should have the later version in it.)

Here is how you fix that problem:

1) Remove the thread from the machine, and remove the back cover.

2) With a socket or end wrench, loosen the Hex Lock Nut HS 101-1, located on the front of the machine. It is in the upper right-hand area of the casting on the front of the machine.

3) Using the proper Allen Wrench from the kit, slowly tighten the HS 98-3 Shoulder Bolt from the back of the machine.

4) While tightening this bolt, keep moving the take-up lever (by hand) until you can place it in ANY position, and it will simply stay in that position. For instance, you can move it to the top-most position, and it will STAY there. Don't over tighten it, beyond this setting, or the machine will get excessively hard to operate on the upstroke.

5) When you are satisfied the Lever has the correct tension on it, re-tighten the lock nut on the front of the machine.

Sometimes as you tighten this lock nut, it will change the tension on the spring, so be sure you check it carefully before you consider the job done. It's not uncommon to make this adjustment more than once - just to get it correct.

This should fix the loop problem as the needle goes into the leather.

[bydeniss]

  On 1/3/2013 at 11:01 AM, mlapaglia said:

There are a few points, like the rack gear, that are designed to break if the machine develops a problem. This prevents something expensive from breaking.

I hope this is not going to happen to me/my machine. It's not easy to get Tippmann Boss spare parts here in Europe. Before I purchased the Boss, I was thinking of Sailrite Ultrafeed. Now I see that spare parts /components are very easy to find for Sailrite. Boss uses very long needles that I need to purchase on internet.

[trekster]

What happened to the loop problem? Were you able to adjust the tension on the compression spring to keep the Take-up lever from falling down?

[TwinOaks]

Sailrite parts may be easier to obtain, but the machine is VERY limited. We have had several members purchase and try these machines, only to sell them later as "inadequate". If you are ONLY working in garment leather, then it might be useable, but it won't yield good results with veg-tan leather.

[bydeniss]

  On 1/3/2013 at 11:37 PM, trekster said:

What happened to the loop problem? Were you able to adjust the tension on the compression spring to keep the Take-up lever from falling down?

I thought that I PM you, but I think I sent a message to myself:) I am not very familiar with LW forum.

There is no loop anymore, that spring adjustment solved the problem. Now the handle moves a bit hard, sometimes the foot get stuck "in the air" and same time I cannot move the handle, then I push a bit the bobbin shuttle and/or force the needle to go down just to force same time the foot to go down. I think I will try tomorrow, I tried enough for today...

Thank you trekster for your patience and all your help.