Assistance Needed From Boss Owners.

[mlapaglia]

I have this crazy idea that there has to be a better way to tell new Boss owners how to set thread tension. What I need from current Boss owners, if you have the ability to measure tension, is to give me the thread tension on your bobbin and at the H-07 thread guide on the upper thread tension.

If possible please use 277 thread. On the bobbin just make a loop on the thread and measure the tension on a straight pull from the machine. This one we know should be about 1 lb.

For the upper tension make sure the tension arm is all the way down so it does not interfere with the tension measurements. The H-07 thread guide is the one at the edge of the machine as the thread goes down to the needle.

I just made a loop in the thread and pulled the thread with my gauge straight away from the machine. The point is to not let anything but the tension points be measured.

If you have a way to measure the tension please measure it and post it in this thread. I used my trigger tension gauge to test mine.

Mine is an Aluminum machine purchased 12/2011. I used 277 thread for the test.

My bobbin was set at 1 lb and the upper was set at 2.1 lbs.

If you can please let me know what yours is.

If we find that the upper tension is about 2 lbs on most machines then for less than 20 bucks a new owner can get a gauge and set up the machine a lot faster. Its just a thought.

Thanks

Michael.

[trekster]

Good idea... but I have a couple of questions and comments.

1.) What device are you using to measure tension with? And, where can it be obtained?

2.) Wouldn't it be neat if we could come up with some kind of a cheap homemade device (or method) that would measure tension?

3.) I wonder how the factory goes about setting up a new machine when they test them? Do you suppose they use an actual tension gauge, or merely guess at it?

4.) From my experience, I've found that the actual levels are not so important, as the "difference" between the two. That is, regardless of the actual measurement of the bobbin tension, the needle thread tension should be roughly TWICE that amount. For someone who wants a very tight stitch, they might have a bobbin tension of perhaps 2 pounds, and thus their needle tension would be set at 4 pounds. I think it would be interesting to learn which is more important; a,) actual tension levels, or b.) maintaining a specific difference between the two. ????

I use a small mechanical postage scale, but mine only goes up to 1 pound, so I can set the bobbin tension with it, by holding it horizontally and pulling the bobbin thread over the top of it. But it is no good for testing the upper tension. That gives me a starting point, and I usually adjust from there.

Maybe Ben Keck, at Tippmann could give us some insight.

Edited January 12, 2013 by trekster

[TwinOaks]

Some good thoughts there, Trekster. There is also the issue of leather thickness and even type of leather.

I also think that some form of 'common' tool would be easier than using a trigger gauge. Not many people would be too receptive to spending pretty large chunk of money on a machine, then having to go buy another tool just to set it up. Once a person has initially set up the machine, they should get the hang of the tensions pretty quickly. That means that it's possibly a single use tool. However, I'm in agreement with Michael that if there's an easier way to demonstrate the tension, or the ratio between the two, then it would dramatically cut down on the initial set up time. So...any suggestions for a common, around the house tool?

[trekster]

I also think that some form of 'common' tool would be easier than using a trigger gauge. Not many people would be too receptive to spending pretty large chunk of money on a machine, then having to go buy another tool just to set it up.

Yes, I agree. I've tried to think of some kind of household item that could be used to check "tension", but so far have drawn a blank.

[mlapaglia]

Good idea... but I have a couple of questions and comments.

1.) What device are you using to measure tension with? And, where can it be obtained?

2.) Wouldn't it be neat if we could come up with some kind of a cheap homemade device (or method) that would measure tension?

3.) I wonder how the factory goes about setting up a new machine when they test them? Do you suppose they use an actual tension gauge, or merely guess at it?

4.) From my experience, I've found that the actual levels are not so important, as the "difference" between the two. That is, regardless of the actual measurement of the bobbin tension, the needle thread tension should be roughly TWICE that amount. For someone who wants a very tight stitch, they might have a bobbin tension of perhaps 2 pounds, and thus their needle tension would be set at 4 pounds. I think it would be interesting to learn which is more important; a,) actual tension levels, or b.) maintaining a specific difference between the two. ????

I use a small mechanical postage scale, but mine only goes up to 1 pound, so I can set the bobbin tension with it, by holding it horizontally and pulling the bobbin thread over the top of it. But it is no good for testing the upper tension. That gives me a starting point, and I usually adjust from there.

Maybe Ben Keck, at Tippmann could give us some insight.

Some good thoughts there, Trekster. There is also the issue of leather thickness and even type of leather.

I also think that some form of 'common' tool would be easier than using a trigger gauge. Not many people would be too receptive to spending pretty large chunk of money on a machine, then having to go buy another tool just to set it up. Once a person has initially set up the machine, they should get the hang of the tensions pretty quickly. That means that it's possibly a single use tool. However, I'm in agreement with Michael that if there's an easier way to demonstrate the tension, or the ratio between the two, then it would dramatically cut down on the initial set up time. So...any suggestions for a common, around the house tool?

#1: used a trigger pull gauge that reads from 4 oz to 8 lbs. Its what I have around the house. It cost me about $20.00. Any spring tension gauge in the right range would work.

#2: Yes it would which is one of the reasons I am trying to collect the data. Once we know the tensions then it might be a matter of using a small pully and a correct size bottle of water to get the right upper tension. I used a 1 lb bottle of water to set the bobbin tension the first time I set up my machine. This was before I had the Gauge.

#3: I have a feeling they set up by feel and experience. But to be honest Im not sure how set up the machine is when we first open the box. Mine would not sew correctly with the supplied thread. So maybe they dont set up the tensions all that well. Just make sure the machine functions ok and ship it. If the knot is high or low they know the machine can be adjusted so its not something they worry about.

#4: It may well be that the difference is 2 times. It is on my machine. The factory is pretty firm that the lower tension should be 1 lb. so my top tension is 2 lb. we shall see. Hopefully we get some other readings.

Common household tool suggestion. Water and a 2 liter bottle. is we find that 1 lb bobbin and 2 lb top is a good starting point than a 16 oz of water and a 32 oz of water would work. bobbin tension can be set with the shuttle outside the machine. Just holding the bobbin in the air. and top tension could be set by putting the machine on its left side with the thread guide just off the edge of the table. There are other ways that might be better. We will =have to see what we can figure out once we know what it should be.

For this test lets use 7/8 leather 277 thread and a 794 ? 200 needle.Once your machine is set up for a proper stitch on that leather/ thread/needle combination take your tension readings.

Michael

[trekster]

In regards to this topic... I found this thread especially interesting and informative.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=42775&st=0

[mlapaglia]

Yep, thats one of the ones that got me thinking there has to be an easier way to get these set up initially.