Any Campbell Keystone Splitter Owners?

[reddevil76]

I have a 6 inch heritage splitter but recently decided to splash out for an 8 inch keystone as I wanted a splitter which I could lock down the handle. Though the $130 shipping was a pain, I thought I rather buy quality.

To my horror I received the splitter today and found the below:

-There was surface rust on the roller and hold down bar.

- The roller was not polished (is it supposed to be? All other splitters have polished rollers).

- The paint was chipped off the frame in several places.

- Metal burrs from production was all over

- The gold paint used to paint the company name was smeared in several places along the rear of the blade

- The blade was not mounted properly, and as I don't have the right size spanner now, I can't straighten it and test the splitter. But the blade doesn't look polished, so I have doubts on its sharpness. There are also alot of rough scratches further up the bevel.

It looks like a china knock off even though I bought it direct from Campbell. Even my Heritage which cost half of it was better made. The burrs was really a sign of "can't be bothered".

Did you receive yours in this condition?

[Trox]

Hi, would you care to post a picture?, And did you complain about it yet.

Tor

[CampbellRandall]

Please contact us so we can discuss your problems.

• The surface rust on the machine, chips, and blade position could be due to handling, as I assume this was the machine shipped to Singapore?
  
• We no longer leave the roller unfinished, but have instead opted to tool black the surface to limit corrosion. This will not effect the performance.
  
• Burrs? Please email pictures if you can.
  
• I apologize for the gold paint. The lettering is still hand painted, and I can assume the mechanic was not steady in his work. We actually have chosen to stop painting the letters on future models as it is too hard to do free hand.
  
• The blade was mounted true and fully sharpened - sharp enough to shave with. We test every machine before it leaves our doors. I can only assume the machine was handled roughly and the blade was knocked out of alignment. The roll has a groove for alignment. Do you need us to send a wrench for adjustment?
  

Please le me know how we can help.

- Dan Naegle

[reddevil76]

It's hard to capture all the nicks on the paint due to the camera and lighting. But here's some pics. I've just managed to straighten the blade and try it. Despite trying positioning it exactly center of roller, slightly before, slightly behind, I can't get it to work well.

It either takes great effort to split a two inch strap or it'll chop it. And when it does split, I can't go lower than 4 oz and it just get stuck there at the blade. If this it what it can do, then I could've just used my Heritage. Reason I bought this is to split larger than 6 inch.

I've removed the blade will send it for sharpening tomorrow. Will touch up the rusty and chip areas with 1K paint. Too far to return it. And no reply to my email anyway.

Not everyone seems to wear the Made In USA tag with pride anymore.

[reddevil76]

Ok I just posted and see Dan's reply. Indeed I noted the groove and have used it to align the blade. No luck. On my Heritage, once I push the handle down, the blade will make an initial cut, then I pull.

On this, it just squashes against the blade, I have to lap the handle around and wiggle the strap side to side to get an initial cut before I can fully push the handle down and lock it.

All the internal foam and newspaper was intact when I open the box. So I can't comment if all these is due to shipping. In any case, I don't see flakes of paint on the foam.

Anyway I'm not asking for anything in return or refund, just tell me how to get it to split 7 inch so that I don't regret this hefty purchase.

[Trox]

Hi,

have you tried to polish/ strop the blade yet. I have a six inch (6,5) Heritage like yours, a eight and a ten inch Osborn # 86. I will have trouble splitting six inches in any of them. For wide splitting like that you will need a hand or motor powered splitter. If you polish the blade very well you might be able to do it.

Do not send that blade away for sharpening, the edge look good to me. Sharpening means to shape an edge, to get it to split good you need to polish it well on a stropping board or a polishing wheel (with polishing paste).

I have bought new leather tools from about all the todays big companies, Osborn, Dixon and Blanchard, non of them delivers the steel polished. They leave that for the customers.

I try to express my impartial opinion here. The tool should not have any surface rusts, smeared or missing paint when you receive it.

I really do not understand why the roller has to be polished, thought. Apart from corrosion protection, but I am not an expert.

I would think a brushed roller would work better.

The blade alignment is a pain in the a..... on all pull true splitters. If it has an alignment mark now that will change with sharpening, when the blade gets shorter (mark the top center of the roller with some ink on both sides and place the blade according to them)

I and several others have been disappointed when we received un polished tools and it did not look like the old tools we are used to see. Now however, I prefer to do my own polishing. I was not around 100 years ago and I do not know if they came fully polished then. We can ask Joseph Dixon he is a member here 102 years old, he delivers the same tools today as his father did 170 years ago.

Everybody must take of their splitting blades and polish them once in a wile. With my six in Heritage I have to do that allot, it do not hold an sharp edge very long. We judge the quality of a blade on how long it keeps sharp.

Again, I understand your disappointment when you see rust and you cant get it to split right away. The company must consider packing it in grease for long over seas shipments.

However, I do not think its that bad, polish the blade on your stropping board and I am sure it splits good.

Good luck

Tor

[reddevil76]

Hi Tor, thanks for the advise. I've considered stropping the blade. But usually I make it worse, I'm a bad hand at polishing edges. Perhaps I'll just get the machine shop to do a micro bevel for me.

Dylan

[Trox]

Hi Tor, thanks for the advise. I've considered stropping the blade. But usually I make it worse, I'm a bad hand at polishing edges. Perhaps I'll just get the machine shop to do a micro bevel for me.

Dylan

Hi Dylan,

Its nothing to it. You do have a leather strop to polish your knifes? If not make yourself a strop of a piece of plywood (size up to you, mine is about 5 x 45 cm), then glue a piece of firm wegtan leather to it (flesh side down). Cower the plywood with the leather and leave one end free for a handle (or buy one)

http://www.tandyleather.eu/en-eur/search/searchresults/3325-00.aspx

Like the Tandy strop above. Then buy some aggressive polishing paste ( Campbell Randall has allot of stuff like this, ask them).

Cover the leather with paste and start to strop your every tool. You would wonder how you managed without it, I do too.

When sharpening an edge you work against the edge, when polishing you work away from the edge. Its really very simple, drag your splitter blade over the board (away from the edge), keep on doing this until it has a mirror like surface. You will find allot of tips on on youtube and here

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://bullwhips.org/how-make-bull-whip/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/bullwhip_pair_4_111511.jpg&imgrefurl=http://bullwhips.org/?p%3D4901&h=599&w=799&sz=69&tbnid=Qz_HNLY82t3p6M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&zoom=1&usg=__oKDvpsFd1XE3NsnIZDM8FXj2xFE=&docid=3L8iqr6FGUBY0M&sa=X&ei=z1LbUYOYFOXa4ASE8oDAAw&ved=0CIIBEPUBMAk&dur=36

All your leather tool can be stopped on this board, you will see a built up of black on your board after you stroke your blade over it. Thats steel from the polishing, it will mix with the paste and help in the polishing process.

Every leather workshop has a strop like this, and many also have a felt wheel on their bench grinder or drill (dremel etc.) who does the same job. When you done with the first polishing of your blade, the next time will only require a few strokes to get it up and ready again.

You will soon learn this and use it on your every tool. Even needles and surely awls, this will be your most important leather tool.

You will find a lot of videos of sharpening the round knife

It has a more complicated edge. Nevertheless, its the same job; always strop away from the edge ( you can use a Little force, you want break anything)

If you look at the steel right after a sharpening under a strong magnify glass, you will see it still has a very coarse surface. A blade is no good on leather without polishing. When you buy your polishing paste, do not buy a white color for fine honing. Buy a bit more aggressive one ( usually Gray, green or red color), then you never have to sharpen any of your blades again; polishing will be enough.

Good luck

Tor

[reddevil76]

Hi Tor, I do have a strop from Goodsjapan which I use for my swivel knives. But the leather was soft, so I split a piece of veg tan myself (used splits to ensure its level) then I ran the split several times through a pasta roller, glued it to the strop and applied green rouge.

It works on my swivel knives, but on my Heritage, i find I just end up dulling the blade by stropping it. I gave up and just sent it to the machine shop whenever necessary.

Having to ship almost everything from US, for once I have something which I could 'buy' locally, I just allow myself to be lazy.

[reddevil76]

Again, I understand your disappointment when you see rust and you cant get it to split right away. The company must consider packing it in grease for long over seas shipments.

However, I do not think its that bad, polish the blade on your stropping board and I am sure it splits good.

Good luck

Tor

The shipping took only a week.. So I don't think the fact that I'm an overseas customer made a difference. Anyway, having bought Tandy tooling leather, I'm well trained in dealing with disappointment. I guess I can work this one out.

[Trox]

Hi Tor, I do have a strop from Goodsjapan which I use for my swivel knives. But the leather was soft, so I split a piece of veg tan myself (used splits to ensure its level) then I ran the split several times through a pasta roller, glued it to the strop and applied green rouge.

It works on my swivel knives, but on my Heritage, i find I just end up dulling the blade by stropping it. I gave up and just sent it to the machine shop whenever necessary.

Having to ship almost everything from US, for once I have something which I could 'buy' locally, I just allow myself to be lazy.

Hi,

I have the same problem living in Norway, I buy most of my stuff from the US too.

Sounds like you have a good strop there. You may consider a thicker leather on everything else than a swivel blade. I use plastic and cardboard on the the swivels.

If you dull your blade you have the wrong angle or direction of your pull. Be careful on the flat side, do keep the blade flat at all time or else you will dull it.

Follow the blade angle and at the end of your stroke, be careful not to change the angle. I cannot see why you will get a dull blade? keep the blade edge 90 degree to the strop and pull back wards (away from the edge). If you maintain the angel true out the stroke you cannot get it wrong. Its maybe when you polish underneath, its only necessary to polish that side to get rid of any burrs (It must be flat). You finish out by changing sides every stroke so you get rid of any burrs. I am used to sharpening and automatically maintain my angle working with an blade, its of importance of course.

[Trox]

The shipping took only a week.. So I don't think the fact that I'm an overseas customer made a difference. Anyway, having bought Tandy tooling leather, I'm well trained in dealing with disappointment. I guess I can work this one out.

Yes, I can imagine thats a bad leather. Why do you not contact some of our Australian member and ask them where they buy their leather, thats not that far away? (I think every thing from Tandy is a disappointment) I forgot you where living in Asia, I suppose you will get your sharpening done cheap there, I strop my every knife before and after use.

[reddevil76]

Thanks Troy, I now only order leather from Wickett and Craig and Hermann Oak from Goliger and so far so good

[Trox]

Thanks Troy, I now only order leather from Wickett and Craig and Hermann Oak from Goliger and so far so good

We have leather dealers here and my suppliers have all kinds of the good stuff. You know, cold climate and fewer insects. Nevertheless, there are no tanneries left here so it is import leather. Italy, Sweden UK and Germany, not much from the US. Tools and part I buy allot of in the US

Tor

Edited July 9, 2013 by Trox

[CampbellRandall]

Anyway I'm not asking for anything in return or refund, just tell me how to get it to split 7 inch so that I don't regret this hefty purchase.

Pull through machines are widely used for strap work. The blade size does not always equate to splitting potential as this is contingent more on the firmness of the leather as well as the strength and steady hand of the operator. It will take a great deal of force to pull 7" of leather through any machine. We have continued to make the Keystone with the 8" blade as they have been made for over 100 years, with the main purpose being the user can continue to work across new sections of the blade as it dulls without the need to remove and sharpen as often. You can split wide pieces, but be prepared to constantly hone the blade edge and increase your forearm strength. Parts of this size should really be split in a power splitter, but not everyone can afford such a machine. Please consider that workmanship and quality of the materials can take you so far, but we are fighting the physics and pressure of a large split. It is hard to do on a manually pulled machine.

In regards to the blade position, I would recommend pulling the blade back off center (toward the pull side) to allow a better bite. You will also need to take the large pieces in multiple passes.

For the example below, I split a piece of 10 oz to 1.5 oz (4 to .06 mm). The leather width varied from the full 8" down to 7". It was not easy and I had to take 4 splits. I used the sister to your machine, which was built by the same person and the same day as yours, with the same blade edge.

We do take pride in our work. Customer satisfaction is important which is why we offer a 30-day return policy. If the machine will not work for your needs, we will take it back.

[reddevil76]

Hi Dan, in my original email to Lisa, as well as when I turn down your offer of compensation, I believe it was quite apparent to you my intention is to genuinely find out if the shipped condition is the same as others, in which case I'd just accept it.

And also to highlight to you what is being shipped out the door. Sometimes management may not know what is going out their doors to customers.

Anyway, I've just replied your mail and have explained my reason why I can't accept that I can only split straps on this easily.

In any case, I'm ready to make this work. I've just got a small can of black paint to touch up the chipped areas and rusty parts.

The blade in your pic certainly looks a lot better finished than mine. So my plan to send it for resharpening may indeed prove to solve the problem.

Just a suggestion, instead of taping a piece of cardboard over the blade and then stuffing styrofoam and newspaper all over, you might want to consider a light cost of oil, then Saran Wrap the whole machine, and fill the box with bubble wrap.

Styrofoam breaks on impact. And Saran wrapping it prevents the blade from moving.

[reddevil76]

One question about the groove on the roller. I must first ensure the roller is positioned such that the groove is at top dead center before it is useful for blade alignment purpose. How do I position the groove?

[CampbellRandall]

I would recommend moving the blade back a hair. You can use the the alignment groove - simply roll the groove to top center, then slightly back. Push the roll up to the blade and lock the blade in position parallel with the groove. The offset will allow you to bite into the material better.

It sounds as like a little bit of honing is all you need. These large splits are not the easiest as it is pushing the limits of the machine.

Thank you for bringing the condition to my attention. We will have a discussion about this with both the shop and shipping department. Let me know if we can help with anything else.

[reddevil76]

I'm not sure how to make sure the groove is EXACTLY top center. Are there any markings I'm missing? If not I'll just use a measuring guide.

[Trox]

Hi Dan,

My long term plan is to get rid of my existing three splitters (plus a 5-1 machine) and buy a powered splitter and one of your Keystone machine. Therefore , I hope you continue to offer your machine to the current price. Its a great price by the way, compared to the # 84, Heritage and Tandy tool. Talking about 5-1 machines, I have a couple that needs some attention. New roller knifes, maybe the support wheel too. Do you stock them?.

Hi Dylan,

Good luck with your new splitter, nice talking to you.

Tor

[reddevil76]

Thanks Tor.. If you do get a powered splitter, I'd move to Norway so I can borrow it sometimes !

[reddevil76]

Just left the sharpening workshop. They do all these blades for plastic and paper cutting machines. Alot of these blades are 6 foot long! If only I can use them to split an entire side. Secretly took a pic ...

Anyway, they checked and found that the blade is not entirely flat on the underside. They will have to grind the flat side, which means I will lose the tool black and 2mm in thickness.

Usually they will work on the top bevel only. Unfortunately, due to the screw mounting areas protruding beyond the height of the bevel, they can't work the bevel using their machine.

Let's hope just flattening the base would work.

[reddevil76]

They took the flat side of a vernier caliper and placed it against the flat side of the blade. Then lifted it against the light. At certain cross sections of the blade, the light shone through. I hope that's correct.

[Trox]

Hi Dylan,

sorry for the late replay, I have been indisposed for a couple of days. Very impressive pictures from that sharpening shop, I have no doubt that they do good work there. I wish they did the same when I delivered my blade to the Norwegian company TROMAS AS. http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=44696&hl=%2Bsplitter+%2Bblade read my post #5. Look at the pictures and you see how my eight inch # 86 blade came home to me.

TO ALL NORWEGIAN READERS OR VISITORS IN NORWAY, DO NOT DELIVER ANY WORK TO TROMAS AS. THEY ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED.

I am sorry for the bold letters, I have a obligation to warn others from using this company unless they want to sharpen up a lawn cutter blade or something. I have a 75 $ band bench grinder and I managed to straiten up my blade in a couple of hours work on it. Tromas AS has equipment who's maybe worth a million $ and still do crappy work like that. I know I should been on them and complain some more, sometimes I feel to tired to do so. Let them go on and treat their customers like that, thats their Karma not mine. And like they say; whats goes around comes around.

Enough about that.

What I am trying to say is, splitting plastic and paper is one thing, leather a other thing. Whats real important on leather is to have a well polished blade, thats best obtained with a soft buffing wheel or a leather strop. I think you maybe have made your strop out of too thin leather, it will work on a swivel blade. It easier to accidental dull a blade with a hard surface strop than with a soft one.

On a splitter blade the bottom side has to be flat and the top bevel polished. I polish them both, but underneath after the top and mostly to remove any burrs. (First I polish the top well, then some flat strokes on the bottom. I finish up with one stroke top- bottom-top)

Your post # 23,

I use such caliper in both my sharpening and leather work (for measurements).

I am not sure I understand completely what you mean in this post.

Here is how I use such tool to check for roughness.

You hold it up to see if any part of the blade lets more light true that the rest. This to check for unevenness, a totally straight and even blade will let no light true at all (or a very thin even light gap).

Tor

[reddevil76]

They have done some good work on my Heritage blade so I trust these guys. For US$12 per sharpening with 3 days turnaround, I rather leave it with them.

After the owner showed me that the blade is bent slightly up in the middle, he asked me how old I'd this blade. When I told him I just bought thus tool, he shook his head. And I told him two things:

1. The blade was knocked out of position during shipping

2. When I was trying out the splitter, I was using a 2 inch strap, and it wasn't cutting. So I was pressing on the lever down hard with my body weight trying to get the initial bite. My theory is that with the strap (8 oz) thickness pushing upwards on the blade, it might have bent it. He then told me if that's the case, the blade material is poor.