Tools Of A Swiss Sattler

[cjmt]

This thread is interesting as ever! I also have one of those Meyer Flamery plough gauges. Have you one of his splitters Trox? Interesting to see a photo.

[walter roth]

Hello everybody...

I had no time to make something here.

I hope Alan, the images of his sewing pliers here.

He has made super nice.

Anyway, I'm very satisfied when I saw them.

Yes Alan is probably now the No. 1 in Plough Gouge collecting ..... ((((-.

There sure 20 models of the plough gouge from the workshop of Blanchard.

He has made nearly 200 years for a lot of companies and tool dealer in his ...Modelle after their request.

That's why you will find many models and also many non-branded by Blanchard.

Here in St. Gallen there 35 years ago still 3-4 blade forged the saddlery tools sold.

The Cutlers had their own brands, and their tools were stamped with its own brand.

The last here is also already an elderly man and wants to quit, he is 85 now, I've known him for 40 years when I bought my first knife as a schoolboy.

Flessati is his name, he still exists, but he has open only on Saturday.

http://www.tagblatt.ch/ostschweiz/stgallen/stadtstgallen/tb-st/Der-letzte-Messerschmied-schliesst;art186,3979304

For me a great loss, just personally, knows it is so long already.

Greeting

Walter

Edited March 18, 2016 by walter roth

[Alan RUNDELL]

G'day to Everybody,

Where do I start?……. well thank you for your interest & comments.

I started collecting Plough Gauges after I sold my animal trap collection, a nice gentleman came to my house one day and offered me a sum of money for my

animal trap (Tier-Falle) collection that I couldn't refuse! So I then decided to collect plough gauges instead.

I buy these gauges and put them in my locked display cabinet in my vault, I just leave them in their "work clothes" as they were purchased.

The "Glove Cam" Tor is the one you saw on eBay, I saw it to & said to myself "that is mine" & kept bidding until it was…… mine.

I occasionally use one of the plough gauges Tor…. and as it turns out it is the one with THE HORSES on it Walter, I have used or tried the others and they are not in the same league as the HORSE gauge.

I will have a look at the gauges you mentioned Tor, (but not tonight to many alarms & locks to open) and let you know what markings are on them.

I am not a saddler, but I occasionally make a belt or two, I bought an old First World War Pack saddle & hope to completely restore it one day. The only other major work I have done, was to

re-upholster my brothers 1925 Dodge Car seats……but not to the same finish as Walter Roth's work!

Walter, does Flessati make leather tools still?

I apologise for the way the photo's were posted,…. my first attempt.

Best Regards.

Alan

Edited March 18, 2016 by Alan RUNDELL

[walter roth]

Hello Allan

No, Flessati made no tools for a long time.

Sattler sure 40 years anymore, but he has it still traded for when I went into teaching for Saddler.

Something still found himself when he started to rooms.

He simply used "Flessati" as her brand.

There were earlier still a Flessati, St.Gallen, from the same family.

( Flessati - Krontal )

Once again, they were Italians.

The craft was traditionally widely used for Italians.

Greetings

Walter

[Trox]

Thank you Allen! Your pictures were just perfect, but you have to post more later

The Germans and Swiss are of course great craftsmen. Just to bad they was to "disciplined" to put their name on the tools they made. I too have some German made tools and they are very well made (however, made of French pattern).

I saw your wooden Swiss saddlers clam on the picture gallery, looks good.

How a plough gauges cut is mostly depended of the knife position and how it's set up. The distance to the roller and the angle of the knife tip. It has to have a bevel on one side only, to push the material against the guide. And of course the steel quality and it's polish. I like the French ploughs better than the UK made ones, because the knife edge are closer to the roller. The knife on my Blanchard here is very close to the roller and have a slicing angle (pic #1).

The UK ones normally came with round knife tips (the old French ones too, according to the catalog pics). This knife is grounded different of the user before me. Still a longer distance from the roller (pic #2). When I'm back on + $ after just buying a new (old) Fortuna band splitter. I will order a new plough blade for the Dixons (fit UK made ploughs) from Knipscield http://www.knipknives.com/leather.php

I got one of his draw gauges blades and I am really impressed with it. (I have waited a long time with this order now, just waiting for the Norwegian currency to normalize against the $; to expensive as is)

No Cjmt, I am not blessed with owning such Mayer Flamery splitting machine. I believe that Walter have one of them. I think it's based on the one here (pic #3), Spittlers patent from 1888. My version is made by HF. Osborne. In CS. Osbornes old tool catalog, this splitter has the # 83. If you look true Walter's splitter pics posted earlier in this topic, you will perhaps find it. It very nicely made.

Walter, it's alway sad to here about another cuttler that is retiring. If you know of more "secret" tool maker who do not live in our time of internet. Please speak up before they close down caused of missing customers or old age. Trends are changing and people are looking for unique old school tools again. Perhaps we can rescue some of them still

I know you are a busy man Walter, and time is our worst enemy when we pass the 50´s year of age. It will only fly faster and never the other way around.

Did you find time to visit that German old tool maker "the Rossler" to order new puches? If so, did he except your order? It's hard to find good puches today, I'm in the marked for good oval hand punches. Any good tips to me?

Thanks Tor

[Trox]

In my post # 323, I'm writing about Pfaffraths plougs. "makes it hard to cut trailer straps" Is should of course only be: "makes it hard to cut straps". My Samsung tablet has a editing program who has a live of its own. It's a PIA to write correctly when it's changing and adding words, rather than editing the words I writes. (Samsung 10,5 Tab with Bluetooth keyboard)

Thanks Tor

Edited March 18, 2016 by Trox

[cjmt]

Thank you Allen! Your pictures were just perfect, but you have to post more later

The Germans and Swiss are of course great craftsmen. Just to bad they was to "disciplined" to put their name on the tools they made. I too have some German made tools and they are very well made (however, made of French pattern).

I saw your wooden Swiss saddlers clam on the picture gallery, looks good.

How a plough gauges cut is mostly depended of the knife position and how it's set up. The distance to the roller and the angle of the knife tip. It has to have a bevel on one side only, to push the material against the guide. And of course the steel quality and it's polish. I like the French ploughs better than the UK made ones, because the knife edge are closer to the roller. The knife on my Blanchard here is very close to the roller and have a slicing angle (pic #1).

The UK ones normally came with round knife tips (the old French ones too, according to the catalog pics). This knife is grounded different of the user before me. Still a longer distance from the roller (pic #2). When I'm back on + $ after just buying a new (old) Fortuna band splitter. I will order a new plough blade for the Dixons (fit UK made ploughs) from Knipscield http://www.knipknives.com/leather.php

I got one of his draw gauges blades and I am really impressed with it. (I have waited a long time with this order now, just waiting for the Norwegian currency to normalize against the $; to expensive as is)

No Cjmt, I am not blessed with owning such Mayer Flamery splitting machine. I believe that Walter have one of them. I think it's based on the one here (pic #3), Spittlers patent from 1888. My version is made by HF. Osborne. In CS. Osbornes old tool catalog, this splitter has the # 83. If you look true Walter's splitter pics posted earlier in this topic, you will perhaps find it. It very nicely made.

Walter, it's alway sad to here about another cuttler that is retiring. If you know of more "secret" tool maker who do not live in our time of internet. Please speak up before they close down caused of missing customers or old age. Trends are changing and people are looking for unique old school tools again. Perhaps we can rescue some of them still

I know you are a busy man Walter, and time is our worst enemy when we pass the 50´s year of age. It will only fly faster and never the other way around.

Did you find time to visit that German old tool maker "the Rossler" to order new puches? If so, did he except your order? It's hard to find good puches today, I'm in the marked for good oval hand punches. Any good tips to me?

Thanks Tor

It looks like a better engineered Dxons splitter.

I too am in the market for oval punches. I have a batch on order from Blanchard, I havent bought oval punches from them before, I will be interested to see what they are like!

Charlie

[simontuntelder]

Still the best thread on LW.

I would interested in knowing if Rossler in Germany is still making punches too. They're by far my favourite punches.

I had a complete set from Paffrath and they did OK, after being slightly reground and polished. They're dirt cheap, but not what I would call world class tools.

I tried some new Blanchard punches. They needed a bit of work, which is fine, however one of them hadn't been heat treated properly, and broke.

New Blanchard is hit and miss.

I have a lot of oval punches. Let me know, what you need and I'll see if I can help.

[walter roth]

Hello together...

 

Unfortunately, there is only the "MKO" Offenbach making tools.

He is the last German Sattler - tool maker.

I have just a little time, will also write.

But I just put all photos disappeared from the tread that found...

 

What is there...?

 

Without photos, the tread is worthless.

 

I await a response.

 

Greeting

 

Walter

[Thor]

Walter, nach dem letzten Update ist noch nicht alles wiederhergestellt. Die Administratorin (Johanna) arbeitet daran. Kann sich nur um eine gewisse Zeit handeln, bis alles wieder da ist.

 

Just informing Walter about the recent update and that Johanna is working to recover everything.

This is the company Walter was referring to http://mko-handel.de/

[walter roth]

 

Hi all
 

Well, there's just something interesting to buy.

"Ricardo" .... is something like the eBay of Switzerland.

 

https://www.ricardo.ch/kaufen/buero-und-gewerbe/sonstiges-gewerbe/sonstiges/lederriemen-lochmaschine/v/an820975970/?utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=noncv&utm_campaign=ric_ret_de

 

The machine is cheap, but the transport costs...

 

Greeting

 

Walter

Edited April 9, 2016 by walter roth

[simontuntelder]

On 9. april 2016 at 0:03 AM, walter roth said:

 

Hi all
 

Well, there's just something interesting to buy.

"Ricardo" .... is something like the eBay of Switzerland.

 

https://www.ricardo.ch/kaufen/buero-und-gewerbe/sonstiges-gewerbe/sonstiges/lederriemen-lochmaschine/v/an820975970/?utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=noncv&utm_campaign=ric_ret_de

 

The machine is cheap, but the transport costs...

 

Greeting

 

Walter

Thanks for the link Walter. I have friend who lives in Switzerland that helped me bid. I had the highest bid until the very last second. Unfortunately it wasn't meant to be.

I wish I could have bid more, but I've just ordered a lot of supplies and recently bought some new machinery. So I didn't really have the available funds.

A new one at Sieck is close to 2000 euros...

 

Did anyone here buy it?

[simontuntelder]

Did anyone digitalize the pattern for the Swiss sewing clamp?

I'm thinking about commissioning the making of one.

[Thor]

5 hours ago, simontuntelder said:

Did anyone digitalize the pattern for the Swiss sewing clamp?

I'm thinking about commissioning the making of one.

Sorry, never got around to do it. I could take my clamp apart and mail it to you. Just a few more things that need to be added to it. I can take a few pics and email you. I can always make a new one if I need one again.

[Nox]

Hi Walter, I'm an ex saddler maker from France, I have few Blanchard Tools too and I know very well Mr Montagne from France (Ifojoss) about whom you speak in the page1  

 

"Hi Tor ..........

Well, the stories of Tor with the hammer I have ever read as a child, along with Connan the Barbarian ..... ((((-: .... and Prince Ironheart .......................

Norway is an unknown country for Swiss Sattler, like they had a unique culture in the harnesses for work.

So I gladly give you the PDF, send me your email address.

The price lists are also included.

This type of H, the so-called Saddle-Maker-Hammer, which I also have some with wooden handle, horn handle and there were also those with bone handles, with the bones I saw only once in an auction catalog.

It is quite possible, that was the one knife making as a repair like this.

In Blanchard, there were also workers, after they have retired, still continued to work privately at home.

I have such a tool with the Brand ......."Portrait of Paris,"....... has made super fine tools, but it is very rare to find. that was the Worker from Blanchard, told me an old Saddler from France.

Here's what to look at.

https://sites.google.com/site/ifojoss/outils-bourrelier-sellier/galerie-1

You can buy anything from him that all things are sold. In addition, the prices had ..... Wow.

Then there was the even of the most beautiful things ever made, the company "Strolz Paris" had only very fine ebony handles with inlaid shield made ........nickel silver........... or as the French say, ............."Argentan"..............

Blanchard was indeed famous, but by far not the best.

Even in Switzerland there was a tool making, the ......."Niggli Aarburg"............ has worked very clean.

Then the best knives from the company .............."Backaus"............. a Knivemaker in Bern.

They were better than that of Blanchard.

Backaus made the Half Moon Knife for the Swiss Army Sattler.

So now I've visited.

Yes here is the second of August, yesterday was National Day with us.

Greeting

Walter"

He's a good friend. He's still having few tools to sell sometimes... A Wheel for stiching, Mercier and Blanchard, very old with wood ball (griffe à conducteur in french) by the way.. If you are interested, contact him or I can tell him...

Anyway, here is a part of my collection, far from yours (which is so big!!!), because of french money ha ha ha.. I have been to Switzerland this summer and for sure, frenchs cannot compete .. But so nice landscapes... I'd love to live there! I'm a girl born in a farm in pyrénées, I live in Périgord and I miss mountains....

I have some scans of Blanchard catalog (exactly the same than you), but page 19 and 20 are missing and I don't have price list. Can I have them please? By mail when you'll have time

I have some other scan as Krempp and Gomph catalog if you want them (but you may already have them?).

best wish

[Nox]

the rest of my Tools 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Nox

[Nox]

you said "

Then there was the even of the most beautiful things ever made, the company "Strolz Paris" had only very fine ebony handles with inlaid shield made ........nickel silver........... or as the French say, ............."Argentan"..............

Blanchard was indeed famous, but by far not the best."

but it's "Stoltz" not Strolz   A friend of ifojoss.

[Trox]

Hello Nox, very nice tool collection you have there. I tried to reach Walter too (true a PM) but no answer yet, perhaps he in a holyday trip somewhere. I do collect and use French leather tools too. Here the other day I scored a large lot of old tools from an closed down Norwegian Saddlery (Henriksen  Jensen, Skien Norway. Etbl. early 1800 to 1992) There was mostly French Blanchard and Portrait, such as Ploughs, compasses and circle cutters. There was two round knifes  of a maker I never seen before, thought looks to be of French  pattern. But perhaps made in Swiss or Germany, I'm only guessing here because I can't remember seeing this maker Stam before. The knife tangs goes right true the handle and are latched in the end (just like ordinary old Norwegian knifes are made) One is 5,5 and the other 6 inch wide. (See pic) I filled the shafts with epoxi and are ready to clean them up. Have anybody seen this maker before, please let me know. By the way, I would love to have a copy of that Gomph catalog, I do not have the pages you are missing anymore (I received them from Walter, but they was stored in a broke down computer and are lot)

Thanks Tor

[Nox]

hum, looks like a phoenix (or phénix in french).... I don't know this marker stam.. I'll ask and will look to find some informations about it...

Letters on the top looks like FF or FP or FE ???

Here are somme round knives, but not those two...

http://www.cesari.eu/bricolages/cuir/couteau_pied.htm

I'll send you a mp to give you my email for the catalogs

but also you may find them here (I'm JadeCB too):

Gomph catalog

http://www.forum-outils-anciens.com/t10833-Catalogue-Henry-G-Gomph-CO.htm

[Trox]

Thank you very much Nox, Yes the knifes are still a mystery. I still have a feeling they might be German made, just a guess based on the handle material and ferulle. Thank you so much for the links/catalogs. It's a very interesting site about round knifes, I do have several of those knifes (around 25, but not all are different) Gomph tools are very collectible, I just lost two nice round knifes during shipping from USA. I favor a good HF Osb. or a W. Rose over a Gomph. First time I've seen his catalog, very interesting indeed.

When I have a French tool expert here, I have a few other French brands I want you to take a look at (I might have more, but these will do for now). If you do not mind ? There where two nice circle/washer cutters in that same tool lot as the 2 mystery knifes. One has a beautiful stag handle and a horse brand (did not have the time to clean it up yet), I belive it's a "PORTRAIT". It's in very nice condition, blade is not even Re sharpened. (pic 1 & 2). Next is a double washer cutter 30 cm of brand "Prisma", it might be German and not very old. (pic 2 & 3). Next is a "serpette" I bought from France some years ago. It's marked "S:N:C:F and a laying B" (pic 4 & 5) It's a typical Blanchard pattern knife and has very good steel for leather( gets very sharp). One last tool a small  20 mm. English strap end punch from "Dumay a Paris" (pic 6 & 5) Also bought in France. I know this was a lot to ask about at once, not every day we have an French tool expert on the forum. By the way, it's first time I've seen anything from "Ullathorne & Cie". I do have an old large round knife from them, I'm afraid it's in to bad shape to be saved (or need to much work). There was also an Ullathorne in the UK, do you know if it's the same one or family? 

I love old French"sellerie" tools, I use and collect them. If you have any info about these tools Pls let me know. Thank you very much for your help and insight Madame, email sent     

[simontuntelder]

The first washer cutter is German. The company is called something along the lines of Rössler - Walter should be able to confirm. I have some tools that bear that mark and they've all been bought in Germany or Denmark.

- I have a feeling the other washer cutter is German too. I think I remember seeing it somewhere not too long ago, so that washer cutter isn't that old.

 

Beautiful strap end punch btw.

[Trox]

Hi Simon, yes the "Rossler" have the horse symbol too. But I seen it on French tools too, If I'm not mistaken.  I'm not sure anymore, when you forget to write such information down its forgotten after time. The second one is German I think, it's a couple of German tool companies with that name. It do not look that old to me, looks like something made in the 1960 and later. Perhaps not that good looking, but looks like a very good tool to me.

[walter roth]

Hello NOX

 

If you a list the ifjox have the tools nor does, that would make me interest.

 

Awesome pictures, and yes I know this tool brands, but not with the address which belongs to.

Sorry, I have your posts it first now read.

I bought some tools from Ifojoss. I even got him to a market hit, that was about 1993, I was in France at the cave diving.

I do not remember where it was, somewhere in central France to Rocamadour.
I then made the Eemergence de ressel, the Font del Truffe, the la Finou etc. dives.

at that time I was just not interested and I have not even the man with the saddlery plant zeugen gesprochen...schade.

about 4 years ago I got a price list from his son, but unfortunately some were things for me too expensive.

you clothes are beautiful, you have more tools like the most sattler I know. keep it up.

I did also saddles, here you said "the French" model, because they had separate seat cushion made of felt, the leather is soaked in water, then with were involved. And of course with "Tree".

 

Yes I'd like the tool catalogs, please give me your e-mail and I'll catalog send you the Blanchard.

But please private mail, the system here is cumbersome.

Unfortunately I didn't like the rider as a customer, so I stopped after about 60 saddles so.

 

Greetings

Walter

[Reegesc]

Wow, beautiful tools.  Thanks everyone for posting pics.  

[Dams]

Hi all,

I am a friend of NOX and ifojoss, also french and also love leather tools ;-). I just post on your forum something that can interest you : 

If some of you have such tools catalogs (french or not), it would be awesome to scan them in order to enrich this page. You can contact me by private message if you want ;-)

@walter roth your collection is beautiful. I would love to have some of your tools. Thanks to share that with us.

@Trox same as walter, thansks to share by posting photos ;-)

Edited October 26, 2016 by Dams