Tools Of A Swiss Sattler

[Sona]

Ja, ich schau nochmal. Tut mir Leid, dass ich das alle etwas verzögert habe, bei mir läuft in den letzten Wochen einfach sehr viel drunter und drüber... morgen weiß ich wohl mehr und wird mich dann nochmal melden.
Ich meld mich bei euch dann auch nochmal wegen nem Treffen. Die Zeit verrinnt grad wie im Fluge ^^.

[simontuntelder]

How do you guys keep your tools free of rust or simple tarnish?

Most recommendations go towards using grease or oil, but I'm pretty certain that it'll stain the leather.

[Trox]

Keep it dry and polished.

[25b]

I wax my tools (paste wax like used on cars) and it seems to help a bit...

[walter roth]

Hi Simon...

This is the reason why all my tools are finely polished. The finer the surface even less quick forms rust.

But I shine just after ...sobald is stains show, and it fats up easily.

It has rubbed off earlier hands with alum craftsmen who had strong hand welding.

"Alum" is the tanning substance used for White leather, White Leather things the soldiers of Napolens, etc.

Wax used in museums to protect metal objects such as armour against rust, which is much more effective as fat, but it's only good if you never touch it.

By the way, who in leather or fabric something not good to work goes (cover with fabric or something like that), so you can try it with silicone oil, so with silicone spray from the spray can. This is no stains and makes slippery thick fabrics.

Greetings

Walter

[simontuntelder]

Thanks for the advice. I need to work more on my tool maintenance. Basically I still miss some basic tools for doing that.


AND thank you Walter for the info on the awl shaping/sharpening. I took some of my awls and I decided to work on them. The first one I ruined because I removed too much material from the blade, however the other three were quite succesful.

What I'm experiencing is that the "exit hole" from the awl is much easier to control and that creates a neater and more consistent stitch. But it's probably something that I'm the only one noticing.

[walter roth]

Hallo Simon

Ich freue mich immer wenn mein Ratschläge etwas genutzt haben.

Und ganz richtig, für eine gute Naht ist die Rückseite ....sehr .....sehr wichtig. Sie sollte im Idealfall fast so gerade wie die Vorderseite sein.

Und natürlich, wenn die Ahle richtig geschliffen ist, sticht sie viel regelmässiger. Denn, wenn eine zu spitze Ahle auf der vorderen Seite schon falsch einsticht, ist auf der Rückseite der Fehler noch viel grösser, ........der Abweichung beim Einstechen wird nach hinten noch vergrössert.

Ist die Spitze aber etwas rund und scharf geschliffen, kann der Fehler beim Stechen etwas nachkorrigiert werden. Die Ahle lässt sich durch den seitlichen Druck über den Ahlengriff etwas führen. Das geschieht beim geübten Näher ganz automatisch.

Gruss

Walter

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Hi Simon

I'm always happy when my advices have used something.

And that's right, for a good seam, the back is very, very important. It should be almost as straight as the front ideally.

And of course, if the awl is well done, it stands out much more regularly. Because, if one already wrong stands up to sharp awl on the front page, it comes out much worse on the back, ...der is increased failed the piercing.

The tip is slightly round and sharp, can failed in a playoff to be corrected slightly. The awl through the lateral pressure via the awl handle something lead.

I hope this is understandable... with my bad English...))) -:

Greetings

Walter

[simontuntelder]

I hope it's OK that I ask a general leather related question in this thread. Some of the most knowledgable people on this forum is following this thread.

I quite often make small leather goods which are folded - and often I need to put in a small groove to get a tighter bend.

What tools did the old time saddlers use to cut a groove?

I've been using my mom's old lino cutter which I sharpened a lot. It works fine, but I would like to know if there's something better that will give more consistency.

And please don't recommend the Tandy U or V gouge. That tool is terrible.

[Trox]

Hi Simon, adjustable V gouges has been around for many years. I cannot date the tool, but for sure before 2WWW. CS Osbore # 128 is such tool I use, then I follow up on each side of the V gouge with an french edger. I remove material on each side so the leather will fold easier. The V gouge only do half the job, you got to follow up with a french edger or simmilar tool to remove enough material. (make the gouge wider).

On light weight leather you can also the gouge with a normal edge beveler. You fold the leather over the edge of your working table with the flesh side out. Then you run your edge bevler over the bend and it will create the gouge. This method its safer on light weight leather.

Tor

[simontuntelder]

Well, if the CS Osborne is better than the Tandy version, which I hope it is, then that might be the solution.

Can you guys recommend a good maker french edge skiver?

The leather that I want to put a groove in is 1.8 to 2.5 in thickness.

I use very small edge bevelers (0 and 1s) and I tried, but none of them would cut a groove.

[Trox]

Well I use old CS, HF Osborne and new Ron´s tools. They are all good. Most of the old stuff of french edgers are good, English makers call them skirt shaves I believe. You better get different sizes at least a couple (big and small) They are useful on a variety of different tasks, from skiving, making miter joints to setting snaps in thick material (skive away material around a hole when the leather are to thick). I would not know how do without them. In fact I never was without one, I first bought an cheap tandy tool that I polished an modified. Then later I changed that out for a better tool. However, the tandy tool worked well after modifying. I think they where called craftool or the leather factory when I bought my first french edger. Perhaps they used better steel than today and perhaps not. Soft steel gets sharp and thats what a french edger have to be. You do not cut in to a cutting board with an french edger and thats perhaps the reason the cheap tool worked pretty well. They come in both straight and curved bottoms, but they do the same job. I see Bruce sell them from 50 to 100$ for good old ones, they always been of the most expensive among the edgers.

Tor

[Trox]

To make a groove with an edge beveler work only on very light weight leather. Leather you are able to make a sharp outside (90 degree) bend on (Flesh side out). I think your leather are to thick and stiff to use that method. And you must remember to polish/strop your edger first too. I polish mine on the edge of my stroping board. On that thickness you must use an V gouge down to aprox half the thickness of the material and skive away material on each side of the gouge to make the "V" wider. Wet with some water and fold it up nicely.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Trox

[simontuntelder]

Well, I've just exhausted my tool buying funds, as I need to do some other investments first, but I'll definitely pick up some French edgers from Bruce then.


I'm using Barry King edgers (I have all four kinds, though I think I lost the two bisonettes in my last move, but they never struck a cord with me anyways) and they come very sharp and I've polished them on my own jig making them even sharper.

I think I have a Tandy edge skiver lying around, but it's dull and I don't know if I have the neccessary skills to sharpen it. I'll give it a go.

[Trox]

On those Tandy french edgers the safety iron on both sides of the blade are often of uneven thickness and to thick. I remember I had to to take of material on both sides of it before I polished it on my buffing wheel. I took off all the blacking on it and it performed pretty well after that. I bet you could even polished it on your stropping board, that black color comes of easy. Any top side burr´s you can remove with an small ceramic stone or anything else you have laying around. Its not a difficult job, because its not very hard steel. You can afford buying a new one if you f#### it up the first time. If you use a magnifying glass on it you will see if it has any burr on the edge (if you do not feel any and it still will not cut good). You will also see how ruff the steel surface is when its not polished, then you understand why it will not glide true the leather. It has to be sharp as an skiving knife, but this steel is much softer. Its normally an easy job.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Trox

[walter roth]

Hi Simon....................

I've been watching the problem many leather artisans with the leather fold have for long years.

I'll show a job taking pictures and step by step how I do this.

I work to pull a u-shaped trench often without the leather. The leather can withstand much more form than many want to believe. If anyone who has seen how, working much more precise and easier.

I have a small "INCA bandsaw" (old Swiss brand) to produce the forms made of wood.

So, I then commit the forms of leather bags in a wood-embossed tool. Setting to the woodworking tools is very quickly done,... 30 minutes for a form.

But it takes 1-2 weeks until I time to do.

Greeting

Walter

[Oldtoolsniper]

This has been a very informative post. I'm I awe of some of those tools and having them explained is really helpful. Now I have to find some to restore so I can use them. I'm afraid this is going to be more expensive than tying flies to save money.

[Alan RUNDELL]

Good morning,

I have been reading & viewing this thread/ article/ topic for some months now and find it absolutely fascinating, although when you look at Walters finished work it makes one feel inadequate.

You are an absolute craftsman Walter!

I do have a collection of Plough Gauges (30) of various brands some of which you would not have heard of, I will take a photo before long and list them on this thread. They are all just as I have bought them and stored them in my room.

NOW for my request is there anybody that could supply me with the templates and measurements of the Stitching Clamp please, I am quite willing to pay for all the costs.

Best Regards

Alan

[simontuntelder]

I recently walked past a local thrift store and surprisingly saw a plough gauge sitting in the window, which I of course bought straight away. Unfortunately the rest of the tools from the estate had already been sold.

Anyways, the plough is German or from a German speaking country, as there's writing on the blade saying "Edelstahl Geschmeidet" meaning "forged stainless steel" and furthermore there's a stamp on the beam saying "King", which I'm guessing is the brand/maker/wholesaler.

Has anybody seen or heard about tools from King before?

I'm having trouble uploading pictures, but I'm trying to solve it.

[Trox]

Hi Simon, I have a knife (French pattern, Cornette) who have the same brand. Walter knows because I asked him here before. And Simon, post a picture when you can.

Alan, please post pictures of your many plough gauges. I look forward to see them, for sure. Just remember to keep the size of the pictures under 500 kb each, otherwise they will occur to big on this site. Use a picture resizer or use your email program that automatically resize your pictures when you attach them in a email.

Thanks

Tor

[Alan RUNDELL]

Hi Simon, I have a knife (French pattern, Cornette) who have the same brand. Walter knows because I asked him here before. And Simon, post a picture when you can.

Alan, please post pictures of your many plough gauges. I look forward to see them, for sure. Just remember to keep the size of the pictures under 500 kb each, otherwise they will occur to big on this site. Use a picture resizer or use your email program that automatically resize your pictures when you attach them in a email.

Thanks

Tor

Thanks for prompting me Tor, I have been meaning to do that for some weeks now….. I did take them out of the cabinet…. but that is as far as I got. As for a picture resizer etc. I will do my best, I am no Einstein when it comes to computers, stay tuned they might bob up tomorrow.

I do have an excuse though……. I have been making my "Swiss Stitching Horse" and taking copious pictures to post on this site…… it's nearly finished!

Best Regards

Alan

[Trox]

Thanks for prompting me Tor, I have been meaning to do that for some weeks now….. I did take them out of the cabinet…. but that is as far as I got. As for a picture resizer etc. I will do my best, I am no Einstein when it comes to computers, stay tuned they might bob up tomorrow.

I do have an excuse though……. I have been making my "Swiss Stitching Horse" and taking copious pictures to post on this site…… it's nearly finished!

Best Regards

Alan

Hi Alan, I saw a copy of that Swiss stitching horse sold in a Spanish leather tool site. http://www.curtidoscabezas.com/en/home/826-wooden-pony.html I does not look as good as the original. looks like it's been made of solid wood and not laminated as the original. The quality depends of the locking mechanism and the type of wood used of course. It's a nice tool that Swiss horse. I use an old French sewing clamp for my hand stitching. I do not sew much by hand ( I have enough of sewing machines) However, I am often using it tying off the machine seams. When I get the time and hold of some good thick birch finer (or some other nice materials) I will make one my self. What patent did you use on the locking mechanism.

By the way, I look forward to see your plough gauges and other leather tools.

The pictures do not have to be perfect, you can also use less pixels in your camera settings to make the pics smaller (pic size 300 to 500 kb is perfect for this site)

Thanks

Tor

[Alan RUNDELL]

[G'day Tor,

I will post these photo's of my plough gauges, 30 in number.

Some are branded:- Blanchard, George Barnesly, Fox, Various models of Dixon, Brindley, Mayer & Flamery, etc.

The last two photo's are of a clamp for stitching gloves or as Walter has suggested it could also be used for saddlery.

Regards

Alan

attachment=113537:Image 17.jpg]

[Trox]

Hello Alan!
Wow, I'm with out words! That's a great collection of plough gauges! I wonder where they all had gone, now I know I recognize most of the makes. There is at least one or two I have never seen before. The last pic before the gloves clam, what does it read? " PARISOTF.LS PARIS" Thats what it looks like to me? The "Portrait Paris" I have seen once before. Nevertheless, it's unusual too.

(Mayer Flamery (Fernand Mayer) was copies of the Blanchard tools. He was an old master employed in Simonin Blanchards workshop. He left and took their tool catalog with him. He started his own production copying their tools. Blanchard used the law against him and shut him down. He was allowed to continued produce his splitting machine, who was unique and very popular.)

In your picture # 3, I see a plough who is very unusual too. It looks very much like S. Blanchards # 602 in their old catalog. It's an early version of today's Vergez Blanchard model perhaps. I cannot see the maker on in (left in your pic #3)

In your pic #5 (image4.jpg) it's an German plough from what Walter describes as the "Horse man" or perhaps "Langenhans". I belive Walter has that same tool, it's missing it's top adj.screw.

That glove clam is beautiful, I've seen a drawing of it in the tool dictionary (Dic. of Leather working tools, R.A. Salaman). Perhaps seen one for sale on Ebay a long time ago. You can use it for other leather work too jaws are made of brass and will not stain. You can use some leather around the jaws to eliminate markings.

I see you have have several German Pfaffrath plough too (Three of them, bottom your pic # 1) I got one new one too. Mine is made in such way that the knife is pointing to the left, pushing the leather away from the guide. It makes it impossible cut trailer straps with it. I think that is a production error. It also have a little removable peg (guide) on the right side of the knife for cutting in circles. I wonder are yours made like that too. You see the piece that the knife is bolted on to is 2,5 mm thicker in the front that the back; making the knife pointing against the material guide. If it was constructed exactly opposite, it would have preformed well and pressed the material against the guide (not from it like now). I have to put some shims between the blade and the frame to correct this error. Looks like it been made in a hurry.

My latest plough is a a J. Dixon screw plough who is a bit different from yours, I wonder how many different models he made.

I sorry for the long post, it's such an interesting subject these tools.
Thank you for posting! any other tools you would like to share?

[Trox]

I guess I wasn't without words after all Your plough in pic # 3 is also the same as the # 368 in George Lutz´s catalog (last of my pics) Their catalog was identical to S. Blanchards. Keep them coming.

Thank you

Tor

[Trox]

Alan, are you using these tools or just collecting them? Myself I started collecting them because current tools are not up to the patch. First I started collecting machines, buying and selling to get a proper machine park. First sewing machines, then all kinds that I needed. My latest is a Fortuna band knife splitter coming this week. When I had the machines I wanted I started collecting old good tools, changing out every economical tool that did not perform well . I too do not use every tool I have, but I do use the best performers.

Thanks

Tor