ttownfire Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Hi All, I am a full time firefighter with a sewing habit. I have an Artisan 618-SC that I use for lots of different operations. Examples, I repair firefighter turnout gear which is heavy Kevlar and Nomex fabric. I also make and repair cordura/nylon based products I.e. bags, tactical gear, etc. Lately, I have gotten into more leather after a brief flirtation a few years ago. I am having a hard time sewing patches into arm and legs of the new firefighter gear. It was doable on the Artisan 618-SC with some creative folding of the fabric, but the turnouts have gotten smaller in diameter and that trick isn't working on the flat-bed Artisan anymore. So I am thinking some kind of cylinder arm type machine. I have been hand stitching everything I make with leather as I don't want to damage the machine that funds my leather venture. I've hand stitched some sheaths, a holster and plan to make more. I am afraid to do more than one layer of 5oz vegtan with the machine. To complicate matters, I am currently investigating a few different boot and shoe schools I may possibly attend. I would like to have a machine that is capable of sewing the leathers involved with those industries as well. To sum up my messy mind: A cylinder arm machine. Capable of sewing heavy leather and heavy Kevalar and Nomex fabric. Capable of sewing the leathers involved with shoe/boot manufacture Is there one machine that will do what I want? Can you provide some machines for me to investigate? I've looked at the Cowboy 2500 among others, but would love to hear to some opinions on my particular situation. Muchas Gracias! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forbeskm Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Maybe I can help on the shoe/boot school side of the world. I just attended shoemaking.com, Bonney and Wills Hiking boot class and I am looking at starting to makes shoes here myself. His courses are great, 7 days long and you get pretty much full hands on the sewing machines, except for the Landis but I am sure we could have asked. Bill had several machines, flat bed, post-bed, and an Artisan TORO-3200. We mainly used the post-bed with a roller foot for sewing up the uppers, these did a great job. I found a local place near me that has a post-bed so thats next on my list. We could have used the flat bed for most but it would have been more work and not as much fun. The large cylinder isn't needed for shoes but its cool to have apparently. Bill used to pre-punch holes for hand stitching the backs of the quarters on the boots. He said you can stitch the outsole of a shoe but its difficult as you have to sew upside down and it depends how close you need to get to the last. We were using multiple post-bed machines, he had old singers, 168W, 236, Artisan 5110, Artisan 4618. He also had quite a few flatbeds, one was a Juki 8700, Note, the Artisan 5110 was more than enough to do what we needed and my top leather was 8-10 oz bison and I had no problems sticthing the liner to it with bottom feed and roller on top. He had top and bottom feed singers, artisan and walking feet, and he recommended the roller with the bottom feed post-bed if you were only to get one machine. A post-bed makes sense to make shoes though the work area is small. The roller feed is great for making shoes, I would not want a needle feed or walking foot as it would just be that much harder to see where its all going, the roller follows lines with ease. I have a consew 206rb clone at home with the needle feed/walking foot so I can use that if I need more than the post can handle. Landis 12/K, a 800 pound behemoth is used for stitching the sole on the outside. A Landis McKay 88A was used to stich inside the shoe for the insole to the midsole. Both of these are shoe machines of a past era Pilgrim carries them as does craigslist, look for a shoe place closing. I figure I can hand stitch until I fully commit. Or I can take my few pairs down to a shoe repair place and have them run one of these old sticthers for me, a lot cheaper and leave me more room in my already small place. All depends what shoes you want to make. We were using 46 up to 92 thread, I doubt you would need to go higher, maybe 138 for looks. The 3200 artisan cylinder does 69-415 so it might be a good compromise, though it would not have the roller foot like the post-bed. I am not familiar with kevlar and nomex so I'll defer to Wiz and others here to recommend a cylinder machine. Most of my research there was on the post-beds. Happy to talk more about shoes if you are interested. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ttownfire Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Wow awesome stuff Forbeskm! What a serendipitous reply, as that is the front runner for shoe schools I've been looking at. Great to hear from someone who actually went there. The more I think about the way I need to manipulate the fabric to do patches on the turnouts, the more I think a post style machine may work better than a cylinder arm. I have 4 angles that need to be sewn per patch and the cylinder will only give me two for free. A post machine would give me 360 degrees. And a post machine seems like a good fit for shoe making as well.... Mind if I contact you via pm/email for more shoe/shoe school related talk? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
forbeskm Report post Posted September 30, 2013 Feel free to pm, I'll send you my email/phone. I am happy to help out anyone on what little I know on shoes from my week of making boots. I was at Bonney and Wills just 2 weeks ago, check out there facebook page. I highly recommend them and if you have sewn like you have its so much easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Singermania Report post Posted October 2, 2013 HI post bed machines are best for shoes and boots as they are open on one side, however if the 360 degree access your are thinking of is up a jacket arm or trouser leg you wont really have the access that you might imagine. For something as complicated as you are indicating I'd suggest taking your item to the machines and trying them. We have a long arm Singer darner here in our collection, with a leather needle it will sew reasonable thicknesses in any direction without turning the job, however the stitch is ok for repair work but not as tight as a leather worker might demand. We have another machine that is a very old patcher, again it will sew in any direction, however this one is BIG and dwarfs the old Singer 29K. Here is a link showing a fellow on a darner.. .. . Regards Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
