Questions For Mpb And Wax-Finish Users

[Lady Eagle]

I bought some Montana Pitch Blend leather dressing to add to my arsenol of finishes that I'm experimenting with. I've read lots of information regarding this product and other beeswax finishes, but I'm still confused on a few points:

1. Can this be used alone as a finish? Or is it best used after an acrylic type sealer has been applied? (I've read a couple of posts where someone said that the wax finishes can be used alone, but only on "light use" items, so on to my next question...)

2. If used alone for "light use" items, what items are considered light use? So far I've been making wallets, chequebooks, belts, and keychains. I plan to make purses, book covers, and gun holsters in the future. Most of my items are tooled.

3. What types of stains, antiques, and dyes are better off sealed before using MPB or a wax finish to prevent the color from being lifted up? (I'm using water-based products for now, and will start experimenting with oil-based soon)

4. What sealants work the best with MPB, allowing the wax to penetrate the finish?

I'll definately be experimenting with scrap leather pieces. But if someone with experience using MPB and waxy finishes chimes in with their expertise, it would certainly save me time and be most appreciated!

[Cyberthrasher]

1.) Yes and Yes. It really depends on the purpose of the item. If the items won't be subjected to wear and tear then it's fine on its own. If it will be abused, then you want something that will actually PROTECT the leather and not just give it a glossy shine.

2.) Light use is anything that won't experience constant wear and tear. Light use would be wall hangings, wallets (to an extent), tablet cases if they're to be carried in a purse, etc.... I would NOT consider a belt or holster light use because they are constantly subjected to abuse.

3.) All are better to be sealed if they will be subjected to the elements. MPB is a "Temporary" finish and will need to be reapplied. While it's fresh, it doesn't offer a whole lot of protection from scratches and the elements.

4.) I haven't had issues with anything. The main thing to consider will be how long you let it work its way through the finish. Acrylic finishes can take a long time for it to work through, but it does happen. Lacquer and water based finishes go a little easier and don't require as much time before buffing. On wallets with an acrylic finish, I do a couple light coats of finish and then apply MPB. From there, as long as the finish is really light, I can usually buff in about a half hour. If it's a heavy acrylic finish (heavier, not heavy), then I may let it sit overnight. You'll be able to tell when it's ready.

[Lady Eagle]

Thank you so much, Cyberthrasher, for your help and detailed reply! You went above and beyond, and I appreciate it!

I used Montana Pitch Blend as a finish on its own on a piece of pre-dyed scrap leather. Of all the finishes I've tried, this is my favorite! No plastic feel or shine, just a soft glow and the wonderful feel and flexibility of natural leather. Scratch tests seem to magically fade with a little rubbing, whereas the scratches on other scrap pieces leave unsightly marks in the clear-coat finish. I'd love to use MPB just on its own, but virtually none of my projects will be "light use" so I'll have to seal them first.

I didn't realize that there were both lacquer and acrylic finishes. I see Super Shene describes itself as being acrylic, and I think Mop & Glo and the other floor polish I have are probably an acrylic wax. Which ones are lacquer? And what is the difference between them?

[Cyberthrasher]

Don't get me started on Mop & Glo......

Super Sheen is a water based acrylic, but a poor one. It's their attempt at duplicating Resolene. I'd never use it on anything that's got my name on it. I use Resolene as an acrylic finish, and I hear good things about the Angelus version. With Resolene, the key is to make sure you use LIGHT coats and build up your coverage with 50/50 (mixed with water), otherwise it will get thick and plastic looking with the possibility of cracking. I actually use it on most of my products and maintain the "leather" look and feel while still offering excellent protection.

The lacquer finishes are based on "neat-lac" which is no longer available. It was developed by LCI and is actually called Clear-Lac, which is still available. They just rebranded it for Tandy and sold it as Neat-Lac. Clear-Lac is available at Springfield Leather Company. There is also Wyosheen, which I hear is a very good option that's supposed to be the same formulation. Other options are Spray-Lac (aerosol lacquer), but I've heard a lot of horror stories there with people getting spits from the can that ruin their project. There are a couple of other spray versions that I can't quite remember right now.

Another good option for a finish is Bee Natural's RTC Sheridan Resist. It goes on pretty easily, but it's not highly water resistant. It will offer good protection for those "medium" use products. I'd be comfortable with it on wallets, device cases, and possibly casual belts - just not a belt that's going to be used heavily in harsh environments. Lacquer on the other hand, is a very good option for those cases. Plus, you can oil through it pretty easily, which means the oils in the MPB will work through it easier.

[vaalpens]

Don't get me started on Mop & Glo......

Super Sheen is a water based acrylic, but a poor one. It's their attempt at duplicating Resolene. I'd never use it on anything that's got my name on it. I use Resolene as an acrylic finish, and I hear good things about the Angelus version. With Resolene, the key is to make sure you use LIGHT coats and build up your coverage with 50/50 (mixed with water), otherwise it will get thick and plastic looking with the possibility of cracking. I actually use it on most of my products and maintain the "leather" look and feel while still offering excellent protection.

The lacquer finishes are based on "neat-lac" which is no longer available. It was developed by LCI and is actually called Clear-Lac, which is still available. They just rebranded it for Tandy and sold it as Neat-Lac. Clear-Lac is available at Springfield Leather Company. There is also Wyosheen, which I hear is a very good option that's supposed to be the same formulation. Other options are Spray-Lac (aerosol lacquer), but I've heard a lot of horror stories there with people getting spits from the can that ruin their project. There are a couple of other spray versions that I can't quite remember right now.

Another good option for a finish is Bee Natural's RTC Sheridan Resist. It goes on pretty easily, but it's not highly water resistant. It will offer good protection for those "medium" use products. I'd be comfortable with it on wallets, device cases, and possibly casual belts - just not a belt that's going to be used heavily in harsh environments. Lacquer on the other hand, is a very good option for those cases. Plus, you can oil through it pretty easily, which means the oils in the MPB will work through it easier.

Cybertrasher, thanks for you insight on finishes. Applying the correct finish to get the desired result is one of the areas where I need to improve. At the moment I am still using leather balm with atom wax which is supposedly not water resistant, but I do look the finish I get. I like to use it since it is easy to apply and it gives me the natural look. I have been testing a few pieces using Angelus but is not at the point where I feel comfortable to use it on a project of mine.I'm not sure if I can use the leather balm in conjunction with an acrylic like Angelus. I have also seen the use of SNO-SEAL for waterproofing leather. Have you used it and have you any comments on the use of SNO-SEAL?

Edited December 3, 2013 by vaalpens

[Cyberthrasher]

Sno-Seal is another one of those wax "temporary" products that will need to be reapplied. I have heard people have success with it, but it's going to come down to how it's applied and how often it's applied. Granted, you can't be 100% responsible for what's done to the leather when it leaves your hands, but the easier you make it for people to care for their items, the longer it will last and the better your reputation will be. Now, you may not be to the point where you're worried so much about your reputation, but it's something to consider and work on now so that when the time comes you won't be re-learning things. This is why I try to seal most items. That way, when the customer decides they can slack on the conditioner/wax, the item will still be protected. It's just a matter of getting acquainted with the finishing products to learn how they apply.

From your responses so far, I'd suggest taking a look at Fiebing's web site. They have a very brief description of each of their finishing products. Note that it states Leather Balm W/ Atom Wax is NOT to be used as a water resistant top finish. This is why I choose Resolene. It's solid, water AND UV resistant, and creates a nice light sheen when applied correctly.

http://www.fiebing.c...e/top-finishes/

For reference, here's a wallet I just sent out yesterday that's LIGHTLY coated with 50/50 Resolene, then followed up with MPB.

[vaalpens]

Sno-Seal is another one of those wax "temporary" products that will need to be reapplied. I have heard people have success with it, but it's going to come down to how it's applied and how often it's applied. Granted, you can't be 100% responsible for what's done to the leather when it leaves your hands, but the easier you make it for people to care for their items, the longer it will last and the better your reputation will be. Now, you may not be to the point where you're worried so much about your reputation, but it's something to consider and work on now so that when the time comes you won't be re-learning things. This is why I try to seal most items. That way, when the customer decides they can slack on the conditioner/wax, the item will still be protected. It's just a matter of getting acquainted with the finishing products to learn how they apply.

From your responses so far, I'd suggest taking a look at Fiebing's web site. They have a very brief description of each of their finishing products. Note that it states Leather Balm W/ Atom Wax is NOT to be used as a water resistant top finish. This is why I choose Resolene. It's solid, water AND UV resistant, and creates a nice light sheen when applied correctly.

http://www.fiebing.c...e/top-finishes/

For reference, here's a wallet I just sent out yesterday that's LIGHTLY coated with 50/50 Resolene, then followed up with MPB.

Cybertrasher, thanks again for the detailed response. I will definitely have to try the Resolene and MPB approach and see how it works out for me. Do you apply the Resolene with a damp sponge or something else?

[Cyberthrasher]

It varies depending on the project. If there's any natural spots, I try to airbrush the first coat at least so that I don't lift any dye and move it around onto my clean leather. If it's a larger project, I'll airbrush the whole thing to speed things up. The wallet posted above was using a blue shop paper towel. That tends to work well for really small projects where you don't need a whole lot of finish. I just splash a little of my mixture up onto the towel, dab it off on some paper, then lightly rub it into the leather. Come back a couple hours later and do one more coat since wallets don't need a LOT of protection. Other than that, the primary method I use is to LIGHTLY dampen a sponge and apply the 50/50 mixture that way. Just get a little bit on the sponge and apply light pressure, being sure that you get rid of any streaks or bubbles. The whole key to Resolene is LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT. Heavy applications, heavy pressure, heavy anything will result in a crappy outcome. If done right, it will look really good and provide excellent protection.

[Basically Bob]

For reference, here's a wallet I just sent out yesterday that's LIGHTLY coated with 50/50 Resolene, then followed up with MPB.

Cyberthrasher & Lady Eagle, this is a very timely topic for me. Cyberthrasher, I have been using neatsfoot oil with Leather Balm/Atoms wax on pretty much everything I do, but have been wanting to play around with different conditioners/finishes. Just received some MPB oil & conditioner and some MPB leather dressing. Do you use the oil and conditioner or the dressing? (on guitar straps) Also, I use Fiebings Professional oil dye - I have noted on the Fiebings web site that Resolene is an acrylic based product. Is it suitable for the Pro oil dye?

I sure like the look and feel of the neatsfoot oil / Leather Balm w/Atoms wax combo but really do want a pro product and happy customers.

[Cyberthrasher]

Cyberthrasher & Lady Eagle, this is a very timely topic for me. Cyberthrasher, I have been using neatsfoot oil with Leather Balm/Atoms wax on pretty much everything I do, but have been wanting to play around with different conditioners/finishes. Just received some MPB oil & conditioner and some MPB leather dressing. Do you use the oil and conditioner or the dressing? (on guitar straps) Also, I use Fiebings Professional oil dye - I have noted on the Fiebings web site that Resolene is an acrylic based product. Is it suitable for the Pro oil dye?

I sure like the look and feel of the neatsfoot oil / Leather Balm w/Atoms wax combo but really do want a pro product and happy customers.

I use their leather dressing as a conditioner/top coat. As noted above, pretty much all I use is Fiebing's Pro Oil Dye and Fiebing's Resolene. I do oil my work with Neatsfoot oil after dying and before applying any finish. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to say that there's anything wrong with Leather Balm w/ Atom Wax. It's just that it will be up to your customer to perform routine maintenance and properly care for their items. If it gets damaged, it's their fault. But, will the person who sees it 5 or 10 years from now feel the same way, or will they base the quality of your work on how well the customer cared for it?

[vaalpens]

It varies depending on the project. If there's any natural spots, I try to airbrush the first coat at least so that I don't lift any dye and move it around onto my clean leather. If it's a larger project, I'll airbrush the whole thing to speed things up. The wallet posted above was using a blue shop paper towel. That tends to work well for really small projects where you don't need a whole lot of finish. I just splash a little of my mixture up onto the towel, dab it off on some paper, then lightly rub it into the leather. Come back a couple hours later and do one more coat since wallets don't need a LOT of protection. Other than that, the primary method I use is to LIGHTLY dampen a sponge and apply the 50/50 mixture that way. Just get a little bit on the sponge and apply light pressure, being sure that you get rid of any streaks or bubbles. The whole key to Resolene is LIGHT LIGHT LIGHT. Heavy applications, heavy pressure, heavy anything will result in a crappy outcome. If done right, it will look really good and provide excellent protection.

Cybetrasher, thanks again for your advise. I will remember that the key is LIGHT, LIGHT and LIGHT! I had a quick look at your facebook and etsy sites. All I can say is I am impressed! You are doing some great classy looking pieces. Keep up the good work and thanks for the help.

[Cyberthrasher]

Cybetrasher, thanks again for your advise. I will remember that the key is LIGHT, LIGHT and LIGHT! I had a quick look at your facebook and etsy sites. All I can say is I am impressed! You are doing some great classy looking pieces. Keep up the good work and thanks for the help.

Thanks. By the way, that seat on there is another Resolene job, for reference.

[Basically Bob]

I use their leather dressing as a conditioner/top coat. As noted above, pretty much all I use is Fiebing's Pro Oil Dye and Fiebing's Resolene. I do oil my work with Neatsfoot oil after dying and before applying any finish. Keep in mind, I'm not trying to say that there's anything wrong with Leather Balm w/ Atom Wax. It's just that it will be up to your customer to perform routine maintenance and properly care for their items. If it gets damaged, it's their fault. But, will the person who sees it 5 or 10 years from now feel the same way, or will they base the quality of your work on how well the customer cared for it?

Thanks for the input! I am on the same page as you in terms of customer satisfaction for years down the road, so I really do appreciate your willingness to share.

[Lady Eagle]

I, too, thank you very much for your detailed replies Cyberthrasher! Especially regarding the Resolene because that is a finish I am eager to try. I'm not happy with the Super Shene except as a resist. My Fiebing's order can't get here soon enough!