Primitive Finishes?

[reuben cogburn]

I've been doing a lot more mountainman/primitive stuff just because i wanna..

However everything has been either dyed with modern dyes or neatsfoot oiled.

What would a person in the 1800's have used on a calfskin pouch or other cowhide product? They didn't run down to tandy.....

I know of using coffee and tannins, but what other things that you'd have around the homestead or cabin would have been used to color/protect the item?

Thanks y'all...

[mlapaglia]

Walnuts can be used to make a dye. Vinegaroon was available back then as was using a barrel of rusting iron. Both make a great black. walnuts make a brown dye

[Dwight]

Blueberries and / or black berries can be used for stain also, . . . if you want a blue or purple color. They work especially well if they are over-ripe.

You can get a very pretty light tan, . . . just parking the leather in the sunlight for a while.

50/50 neatsfoot oil and virgin beeswax (by weight, not volume) heated together will form a paste near the consistency of Kiwi shoe polish, . . . put it on the same way. I suppose that formula is 150 or more years old from what was told me.

May God bless,

Dwight

[anhurset]

I'll second the walnuts. I made my first batch of walnut dye around five years ago and after a bit of experimentation I tucked the store bought dye away and haven't touched it since. The walnut dye is period correct and can give a hue range that's almost impossible to believe, you can get a light tan to an almost black simply by varying the soak time and dilutution level.

The recipe is simple, fill a bucket with fallen walnuts (its better if they're starting to turn brown), cover with water, top loosely with a lid and let set for a minimum of two weeks or untill the husks become squishy and easy to remove. At this point you can either leave the husks on or remove them, I prefer to husk the nuts as it exposes more surface area, place husks and nuts in a cloth sack (an old pillow case works well) place in a pot, top off with the soaking liquid and get the pot boiling. Reduce to a simmer for 3-4 hours, you'll want to reduce the liquid a bit, but try not to reduce much past the 50% mark, top off with water as needed. Let cool and decant (if you kept everything in the cloth bag then straining shouldn't be needed) and add one cup of rubbing alcohol per two quarts dye to stave off mold.

Check color intensity by submerging a piece of scrap leather for 30 minutes, let it fully dry and oil it well, if it comes out much lighter than a rich chocolate brown you can add some steel wool to the dye to darken it up, the amount of steel wool depends on the quantity of dye, I use 1/4 pad per 5 gallons. The color intensity can be altered by varying the soak time, by diluting with water or by brushing it on (I use foam brushes) instead of submerging. Some people suggest cooking out the alcohol before using, but I've yet to find that a necessary step.

[mlapaglia]

You might want to try this book http://books.google.com/books/about/Harvesting_Color.html?id=8CwxW75P_dsC It lists several types of natural dyes and colors available. Includes how to make them. Pink and purple are just some of the colors she explains.

Edited May 31, 2014 by mlapaglia

[zaynexpetty]

I'll second the walnuts. I made my first batch of walnut dye around five years ago and after a bit of experimentation I tucked the store bought dye away and haven't touched it since. The walnut dye is period correct and can give a hue range that's almost impossible to believe, you can get a light tan to an almost black simply by varying the soak time and dilutution level.

The recipe is simple, fill a bucket with fallen walnuts (its better if they're starting to turn brown), cover with water, top loosely with a lid and let set for a minimum of two weeks or untill the husks become squishy and easy to remove. At this point you can either leave the husks on or remove them, I prefer to husk the nuts as it exposes more surface area, place husks and nuts in a cloth sack (an old pillow case works well) place in a pot, top off with the soaking liquid and get the pot boiling. Reduce to a simmer for 3-4 hours, you'll want to reduce the liquid a bit, but try not to reduce much past the 50% mark, top off with water as needed. Let cool and decant (if you kept everything in the cloth bag then straining shouldn't be needed) and add one cup of rubbing alcohol per two quarts dye to stave off mold.

Check color intensity by submerging a piece of scrap leather for 30 minutes, let it fully dry and oil it well, if it comes out much lighter than a rich chocolate brown you can add some steel wool to the dye to darken it up, the amount of steel wool depends on the quantity of dye, I use 1/4 pad per 5 gallons. The color intensity can be altered by varying the soak time, by diluting with water or by brushing it on (I use foam brushes) instead of submerging. Some people suggest cooking out the alcohol before using, but I've yet to find that a necessary step.

Look who it is!

Everytime I try to find more information on dye, I keep finding your comments the most helpful.

Anyways, how much water do you put in the pot before simmering? do you fill just past the top of the husks? If I were to make say... 1 gallon of walnut dye, and I wanted it darker, how much steel wool would i put in the dye, and how long do you think Id have to wait for it to resolve?

Thanks

Zayne

[anhurset]

Well, what I'm telling you is essentially what I learned from every forum post I could find on the topic, followed by my personal experimentation over the last 5+ years.

You want to try to cover the walnuts with the water, but t it's not mandatory as long as you rotate or stir the bag every 15 minutes or so. I did small batches early on and I found with those batches that it works best to boil for 3-5 hours with the bag of walnuts in and then remove the bag (while boiling) and reduce the dye down to the right color/consistency. Remember to add the liquid that drains from the bag back to the dye.

You'll probably need to experiment with the steel wool, it doesn't take much and too much will blunt the color. For a 1-3 gallon batch I would wait to add the steel wool until the dye was decanted and I would start with a pinch, something about the size of a dime or penny (remember to de oil the steel wool). The smaller you can make the steel wool "fibers" the faster they will dissolve, so teasing it out and cutting it up will make it go faster. The dissolving rate will depend on how small you managed to make the "fibers" and the temperature of the dye, the warmer it is the faster it will go, but you're looking at about two weeks minimum. You have to be patient with this step, if you try to speed it up you'll likely either make the batch too dark or kill the undertones in the dye and have to start over. Remember to shake the container from time to time, it will disperse the steel wool and aid the dissolving, you'll also need to shake the dye before using as some of the larger pigments will settle over time.

[zaynexpetty]

Well, what I'm telling you is essentially what I learned from every forum post I could find on the topic, followed by my personal experimentation over the last 5+ years.

You want to try to cover the walnuts with the water, but t it's not mandatory as long as you rotate or stir the bag every 15 minutes or so. I did small batches early on and I found with those batches that it works best to boil for 3-5 hours with the bag of walnuts in and then remove the bag (while boiling) and reduce the dye down to the right color/consistency. Remember to add the liquid that drains from the bag back to the dye.

You'll probably need to experiment with the steel wool, it doesn't take much and too much will blunt the color. For a 1-3 gallon batch I would wait to add the steel wool until the dye was decanted and I would start with a pinch, something about the size of a dime or penny (remember to de oil the steel wool). The smaller you can make the steel wool "fibers" the faster they will dissolve, so teasing it out and cutting it up will make it go faster. The dissolving rate will depend on how small you managed to make the "fibers" and the temperature of the dye, the warmer it is the faster it will go, but you're looking at about two weeks minimum. You have to be patient with this step, if you try to speed it up you'll likely either make the batch too dark or kill the undertones in the dye and have to start over. Remember to shake the container from time to time, it will disperse the steel wool and aid the dissolving, you'll also need to shake the dye before using as some of the larger pigments will settle over time.

Is there a need to apply a finish (like resolene) to seal in the dye to avoid crocking for vinegaroon, walnut dye, or other natural dyes/stains?

Do you know of any natural finishes that would do as well as resolene?

[anhurset]

Unless you want a sheen or gloss on the end product then there's no reason for a top finish or sealant of any type. Most natural dyes need to be oiled (sometimes copiously) to rehydrate the leather and to make the colors pop, but I've never had one transfer dye at all. On the rare occasion that I use a top finish on a project I fall back on either a wax/oil mixture or Mop N Glo (cut it 50% with water and it gives the same finish as Super Sheen). The wax mix is a 1:1 mix of beeswax and extra virgin olive oil, heat them slowly (I use a candle warmer) while stirring occasionally and allow the mixture to cool and set up, it will form a semi solid paste which melts at around body temperature. It can be applied with your fingers or a cloth, if it doesn't absorb right (it will sometimes leave an overly waxy coating) hit it with a hair dryer or heat gun.

[zaynexpetty]

Unless you want a sheen or gloss on the end product then there's no reason for a top finish or sealant of any type. Most natural dyes need to be oiled (sometimes copiously) to rehydrate the leather and to make the colors pop, but I've never had one transfer dye at all. On the rare occasion that I use a top finish on a project I fall back on either a wax/oil mixture or Mop N Glo (cut it 50% with water and it gives the same finish as Super Sheen). The wax mix is a 1:1 mix of beeswax and extra virgin olive oil, heat them slowly (I use a candle warmer) while stirring occasionally and allow the mixture to cool and set up, it will form a semi solid paste which melts at around body temperature. It can be applied with your fingers or a cloth, if it doesn't absorb right (it will sometimes leave an overly waxy coating) hit it with a hair dryer or heat gun.

No transfer? Even if i were to dip dye a belt in vinegaroon, it wouldn't transfer to ones pants? That is amazing. You are an encyclopedia of leather. Thank you.

I also really like that that olive oil/beeswax paste idea. I will give it a try. I have my first batch of vinegaroon brewing outside right now, it is a week in so far.

[anhurset]

Vinegaroon is a reagent which essentially causes a hyper oxidization to occur within the leather, it doesn't just add a color to the leather, it literally changes the leather's color. It also changes the leather in other ways by changing the fiber/callogen relationship within the leather, this causes a tightening of the fibers resulting in a tougher, more water resistant surface. So, yeah, no dye transfer.

The walnut dye may give some "dye transfer" from the flesh side, it's rare but I have experienced it. It's not true dye transfer though, it's more the flesh side trapping micro particulates and then transferring them through sweat and friction. It's usually obvious when that it may happen, you'll see tiny specks of walnut on the leather and a good brushing of the flesh side after it dries is usually enough to stop it.

Edited August 29, 2014 by anhurset