RavenAus Report post Posted August 6, 2014 Hi, I've just joined a Dark Ages reenactment group - 400ad to 750ad - and I'm basing my character in Early Saxon so between 400 and 600ad. I'm finding everything but the shoes it relatively well documented but I can't for the life of me find an early period-specific Saxon shoe pattern. Everything is either Bronze Age or Viking Era. Can anyone help? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sona Report post Posted August 6, 2014 Even if I can´t help you with a direct information, it might be interesting to have a look at the book "Stepping through time". I know that it is quite expensive (the reason I don´t own it yet) But exspecially if you are doing stuff like that more often, exspecially shoes, it might be worth the money. Depends on you ^^ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anhurset Report post Posted August 6, 2014 Does your group's dressing guide not include an acceptable footwear guide? It should, a clothing and footwear guide is the first thing any half capable group should produce. If they don't, then I suggest you look at guide from a longstanding group known for its accuracy, like Angelcynne (their clothing guide can be found here, http://mahan.wonkwang.ac.kr/link/med/england/anglo-saxon/culture/dress.html). Honestly, Saxon/Angle/Anglo-Saxon footwear is a rough topic as there's just simply not much to go on. We've got a load of archaeological remains from before that period and a mountain from the periods after, but that time span is slim especially in regards to leather and textile items. I second the suggestion on " Stepping Through Time", unfortunately it won't quite give you what you're looking for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sona Report post Posted August 6, 2014 Well, sadly I know, that not all groups are trying to be really historical oriented (as I think that´s the (main) point in reenactment). But its good to know, that the book isn´t about that area, too. Might save the TO some money in this case Besides that I got to mention that your link doesn´t work. Maybe you´d like to fix it ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anhurset Report post Posted August 6, 2014 That's odd, I checked it before I posted and it was working, it's definitely not now. Apparently that was their old site, here's the info from the new one, http://www.angelcynnreenactmentsociety.org.uk/home/pagan-anglo-saxon-clothing. Sorry about that. Angelcynn is one of the more exacting Anglo-Saxon reenacting groups, If you note, their section on footwear gives suggestions for styles around their time period, but no examples from that period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavenAus Report post Posted August 6, 2014 This is quite a small group and we're only the 2nd lot who are going Saxon, most are Byzantine, Hun or Norwegian. They are very good on clothing but I'm the first leatherworker to join so the first thing they asked was when could we have a shoe workshop! There's a lot of research going on at the moment but so far it's either before or after that we're able to find. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anhurset Report post Posted August 6, 2014 The two examples shown on the Angelcynn site are based on extant examples of net style shoes which date to just before the Migration period and may have carried over into the MP. The info here, http://www.heatherrosejones.com/shoesnettop/, is a bit old but still good and they give a pattern for at least one type which should be adaptable for other styles. If this is the first time you've made footwear then I should warn you that you're likely in for a lot of frustration, though the net style shoe is a bit more forgiving fitment wise than closed style moccasins and shoes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thornale Report post Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) If you searched a bit I bet you already found it but you have Marc Carlson's page "Footwear of the Middle Ages" which is a good (free) starting point for both building instructions and patterns lookalike (the images are not actual patterns but mostly silhouettes of what your pattern should look like). Here it is : http://www.personal.utulsa.edu/~marc-carlson/shoe/SHOEHOME.HTM In free resources you also have a huge paper called Leather and Leatherworking in Anglo-Scandinavian York which was released by the York Archeological Trust. It contains an extensive chapter about the shoes (but maybe a bit late for your period) : http://www.yorkarchaeology.co.uk/resources/AY17-16-Leather%20and%20leatherworking.pdf I confirm that Stepping through Time is the Bible of historical footwear and well worth its price (if you want I can check what it has for your period). More affordable you also have the book Shoes and Pattens : http://www.amazon.com/Shoes-Pattens-Medieval-Excavations-London/dp/0851158382 which is good but less complete. If you need I have made a pattern for York Type III that I can share in svg so you can adapt it to any size you want. Edited August 13, 2014 by Thornale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavenAus Report post Posted August 13, 2014 Thanks for those I'd love a copy of the type III if that's ok? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thornale Report post Posted August 13, 2014 (edited) It looks that I cant attach svg files here so I uploaded it on my server. There you are : http://www.latelierdowen.fr/doc/tuto/type3_44_A2.svg . For info this one correspond to (French) size 44 and needs to be printed on a A2 sheet of paper. But you can resize it to any size you want ! If you don't know any softwares for drawing svg I recommend Inkscape (the one I used to make this pattern) which is free. The green triangles should align. You can use some thick felt to make a prototype and check the sizing. If you have more questions about turnshoes construction do not hesitate to ask ! Edited August 13, 2014 by Thornale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anhurset Report post Posted August 14, 2014 While the York type III is a nice shoe it's a bit late period for Anglo-Saxon reenactment and has little to nothing in common with the Roman calcei style shoes in use just before the Anglo-Saxon invasion. In reenacting, when period correct designs are unavailable, the use of an earlier period design is always preferred over that from a later period. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thornale Report post Posted August 14, 2014 Calcei is almost too early given its last use was in third century AD (and in roman context). So it is not good either for Saxon Invasion. 400-750 is a huge time-frame and 750 is closer to the time of York Type III than the time of roman calcei (NB : the opposite is also true). I have re-checked about Stepping Through Time. The last part of the book is about the shoes worn in Roman and Germanic context and in the north of the roman empire from 200 to 500. So you'll find there some interesting resources. And I found another article from a UK late roman re-enactment group you might find worth a look : http://comitatus.net/Documents/ComitatusIntheirShoesweb.pdf . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anhurset Report post Posted August 14, 2014 OP stated that the time period is 400-600CE, which is early to mid Anglo-Saxon. While I agree that full blown Roman boot style calcei are too early, shoes resembling civilian style calcei shoes (refered to as net style shoes at times) were fairly wide spread leading up to the Anglo-Saxon era. The shoes in the attached image date to 400BCE-400CE (while that's a huge swath of time it's about average for carbon dating on bog finds), they were found in Denmark and are a very good example of how wide spread the net style shoe was leading up to the Anglo-Saxon era. In the end think about it like this, if you wouldn't wear Converse All Stars when reenacting the early 19th century then you shouldn't wear York type IIIs when doing early Anglo-Saxon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thornale Report post Posted August 14, 2014 Sorry I didn't know that net shoes was considered as calcei, I only thought about the type of footwear that have been found in Dura Europos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
anhurset Report post Posted August 15, 2014 The confusion name wise comes from the use and the actual meaning of the word 'calcei'. For reenactors and some historians and archaeologist the term calcei refers to a specific type of boot like footwear worn by the late iron age Roman military, but in Latin calcei simply means shoe. Roman authors and historians, both in period and modern, tended to label anything not obviously a caligae as calcei, including barbarian net style shoes (which I would argue are in reality a moccasins and not a true shoes). The barbarian net shoe went on to influence the civilian calcei, which in turn influenced the net shoe, by the end of the Western Roman empire it becomes almost pointless to attempt to class them as differing types. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites