How large should holes be?

[Mungo]

I'm using a hand awl in a drill press chuck to make holes for stitching. When sewing, I have to use pliers to pull the second needle through. should the holes be this tight?

[TwinOaks]

Yes, yes they should!   I recommend looking up some of the posts by "Katsass", in regards to hand sewing (and his thoughts on the hole size).  Having the stitch holes that tight means that there's almost no room for oil, dirt, wax, water.....aka 'gunk' ...to get into the stitch holes and degrade the thread.  Combine the small holes with the right size thread, and there will be no visible stitch holes when the leather closes up around the thread.

[Martyn]

4 hours ago, Mungo said:

.... should the holes be this tight?

As tight as possible...

but...

You have to be able to sew! If you are putting the needles down to reach for the pliers on every stitch, your progress will be very slow and your consistency will suffer. IMO, the fit should be as tight as possible, while still being possible to draw the needle by hand for 98% of the time. Also, the tightness is not just about hole size, it's a relationship between hole size, needle size and thread size. Some brands of needles have larger eyes than others, you could switch brands and be able to draw the needles easier without changing the hole size or the fit of the thread in the hole. Similarly, you could go for a smaller needle and still have the same fit of thread in the hole. You could use the same needles, but bigger awl and bigger thread. Also, the holes start to close up pretty much straight away. If you leave too much time between making the holes and sewing, the needles will be tighter. Consider opening the holes up with a hand awl for half a dozen holes at a time, immediately before sewing through them.

What awl are you using? What thread are you using and what brand/size of needles are you using?

Edited May 17, 2016 by Martyn

[Mungo]

Thanks for the replies. I had not thought about the corresponding thread, needle, and hole sizes. That's something I definitely need to address. I'm going to check out those recommended posts too. Lots to learn.

 

[Martyn]

How 'big' is determined by your project, so obviously for a wallet you would use smaller awl/needle/thread than you would on a sheath for a felling axe. There is no universal answer. But whatever it is you are sewing, the relationship between awl - needle - thread needs to be right. While it certainly should be as snug as is comfortable, if you are using pliers all the time, then you've got it wrong somewhere. You should be sewing, not pulling on pliers.

For medium to large projects, I find an Osborn #43 1 3/4 inch awl is a good match with John James #2 saddlers harness needles and 0.6/0.8 and 1mm Tiger thread.

[Mungo]

Thanks for the replies. I had not thought about the corresponding thread, needle, and hole sizes. That's something I definitely need to address. I'm going to check out those recommended posts too. Lots to learn.

 

 

I've been using a round awl, so I probably need to use a diamond awl. Trying to force the large eye through the small round hole is likely the problem. 

 

[Martyn]

13 hours ago, Mungo said:

I've been using a round awl, so I probably need to use a diamond awl.

You can sew through any shape hole you like, but a diamond awl will give you a hole that lends itself to a traditional saddle stitch (assuming that is what you are trying to achieve?).

These two videos are well worth watching - the technique holding the awl in hand, traditional style, but there is a lot of discussion on philosophy that should be informative to you...

 

 

[Martyn]

19 hours ago, Mungo said:

I've been using a round awl, so I probably need to use a diamond awl.

This pic illustrates the reason for using a diamond awl - you see how the stitches sit in relation to one another? This is using 0.8mm thread and it's just about big enough for the holes. It would be a bit better with 1mm.

It does a number of things - it allows the stitches to sit one on top of the other, the stitches fill the hole end-to-end and side-to-side and you get a good angled stitch, which both looks nice but is also functional, as it maximises the amount of leather between the holes while allowing a higher number of stitches per inch without weakening the leather )if the stitches were in a straight line, the holes would almost be touching).

Edited May 18, 2016 by Martyn

[zuludog]

The holes should be small enough so that there is a certain amount of drag on the needles and the thread, but not so much that you have to use pliers all the time. Pulling the needles by hand about 95% to 100% of the time is about right

You say you use a round awl?. If you can get one, but not two needles through a hole then changing to a diamond awl should be just about right. If you still need to use pliers then look at the relationship between the awl, the thread, and the needles

When you get a diamond awl, don't get the 4-in-1 awl often seen, for example, in Tandy's listing. It's expensive and not very good. A single fixed awl will be better and cheaper

I've tried Tandy's Craftool Pro Stitching Awl and it seems quite good

[grumpybearholsters]

Thanks for the advice.  I am in my embryotic stages of holster making and am grateful for all the wonderful advice on here.  I had issues with my current project because the holes didn't line up and made stitching it a complete bear.  I've made some changes to my process and it seems to be helping with another one I am currently tinkering with.  I still need to nail down my work flow and am glad that there is a lot of wonderful information on here to help with that. 

[Mongo]

If you get your holes a little to big, after you finish stitching your project, wet the stich line and go over it with a boning tool.  The holes will "heal" (tighten-up).  This technique works better if you wet the stitching line before you dye.