How are trees sized?

[Margaux]

Ron and Denise,

Thanks so much for taking the time to educate me. That is exactly the information I was looking for. I truly appreciate you taking the time to do all that work for my education. I know it was a lot of work for you to do that, and I appreciate that a lot.

Your photos were so illuminating.

You had said earlier that you didn't want a mirror image, but I didn't get it. I do now. I now see what it looks like.

I suspect that is useful to others too.

It does all beg several new questions though, I'm full of them. Or full of something.....

1) If you are creating an angle as in photo 1, then why does Dennis Lane use curves? Why not just measure the angle and use that?

2) How do you decide where the angle of the tree will go tangent to the curve of the horse (see photo 4 for example), since there are an infinite number of choices there? (i.e. in photos 4 and 5, the tree touches just one spot on the curve of the horse. How do you decide where that point goes?)

Thanks again, I've enjoyed it all so far.

And I appreciate all those who have participated.

Best,

chilly Margaux.

PS johwatsabaugh (et. al.): are the cross sections of the bars convex at all locations? Or is it concave at some places? Thanks for your input too, it was useful.

PS Greg: You: "...its funny how the shape used in the top drawing does not match the one on the bottom..."

Me: I used the same plastic CD case for all of the arcs in the drawing, so I am sure they are all the same. The case is 124mm across, and so are all the arcs in the picture. (except for the pad arc of course, since that's my point in the post. It was measure 1/2" inward as measured from the normal at all points.)

It's cold here, but the case isn't shinking/expanding that much!

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Margaux,

First off, it's Rod, not Ron. Common error, but we don't want it getting more common.

If you are creating an angle as in photo 1, then why does Dennis Lane use curves?

Because Dennis’s system isn’t telling us how to build a tree. It is simply describing the shape of a horse, and horses are curved. WE decide how we want to fit that shape.

Why not just measure the angle and use that?

Which angle do we measure?

How do you decide where the angle of the tree will go tangent to the curve of the horse

Good instruction to start with and then experience. Lots of trees on lots of horses, on bare, with weight, with padding, moving around, looking, evaluating, feedback from customers riding the saddles.

I'm not saying we never fiddle with our patterns here and there. We do. But nothing drastic because when the basics are correct, they WORK. And we started out with correct basics.

[jonwatsabaugh]

Margaux,

Some makers choose to put a convex profile the entire length of the bar, a little or alot. Some are convex in the front pad and flat in the back pad. I've seen some old Hamley trees that were slightly concave on the back pad with quite a bit of convex on the front. In my experience with horses here in the midwest and on down through Texas, people tend to breed horses with a little more muscle, thus resulting in a cross section that is sometimes more convex than flat and also require a flatter angle to the bars in the front. Because of this, I make the front pads nearly flat in that crossection, with the rear pads perfectly flat, radiusing all edges. Properly blocked skirts will add extra radius to keep the bar edges away from the horse. Steve's drawing is a pretty good representation of a whither more pronounced that will accept a more convex profile in front. Every maker though, does this a little different based on their experience and philosophy in fit.

Jon

[daviD A Morris]

... yet your boots let you down.

Had you gotten the correct boots made for YOUR foot in the first place, would you have gotten the blister from a couple miles of hiking. (BTW, don't you use kilometers down there? yuck yuck)

...

Margaux

Ok, you got me on that one

And I prefer do my walking in miles, there's not as many of them 1 to 1-1/2 miles vs 1.6 to 2.4 km.

Thanks to everyone else for their input, I wrote my reply in haste and didn't explain very well.

dam

[CW56]

Hello everyone!

I've only just recently joined the forum but I'm amazed at all of the wonderful information on it! I've spent countless hours going through the saddle making and tree fitting postings and what I've always hoped to come across is a series of photos (instead of drawings or diagrams) showing different styles of bare trees sitting on different types of horses that would show the differnece between an acceptable fit and an unexcepable fit. Has anybody out there ever come across that sort of thing?

I'd like to build a saddle or two and even though I have no thoughts of trying to make a living from it I want to understand as much about trees and proper fit as I can.

I'm so thankful for this forum! And any help I can get!

CW