ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 18, 2012 I am looking for a machine that can sew through 4 layers of HEAVY nylon webbing to make dog collars for protection dogs...and 4 layers of moderate weight (8 oz) leather...and 2 layers of heavy leather (12+ oz) for leashes. The thickest part of any of these is probably close to 1/2". Here is a photo of the leather I will need it to be able to go through. Will a Consew 255 handle this? I know where I can find a used one for around $400 with table and motor. If not, I am considering a free arm machine, but don't want to break the bank (less than $1000 for everything if possible...and used does not bother me if it is in good shape). RECOMMENDATIONS? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted May 18, 2012 Well, 441 Clone or the real thing Adler Clone or the real thing No.9 or Classic Ferdnand 900 Bull Singer 97-10 If you find any of these for $1000, check them out very carefully because that price is way off what they should bring. Depending on what you get, you might have to invest in a speed reducer and a servo motor, and additionally some smooth feet or a blanket set. Since you are doing small stuff, a short 9" arm version of the 441 would be in the $1500-$1700 range. Steve at Cobra occasionally gets a trade in, Bob at Toledo might also have one. They can both give you a great price on a new one, but it would be exceeding your limit, however it would be setup to do whatever you needed. Art I am looking for a machine that can sew through 4 layers of HEAVY nylon webbing to make dog collars for protection dogs...and 4 layers of moderate weight (8 oz) leather...and 2 layers of heavy leather (12+ oz) for leashes. The thickest part of any of these is probably close to 1/2". Here is a photo of the leather I will need it to be able to go through. Will a Consew 255 handle this? I know where I can find a used one for around $400 with table and motor. If not, I am considering a free arm machine, but don't want to break the bank (less than $1000 for everything if possible...and used does not bother me if it is in good shape). RECOMMENDATIONS? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 19, 2012 Anyone familiar with the consew 255? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted May 19, 2012 Yes, we know what a 255 is. My opinion is it might be able to do this kind of work occasionally. The key words are might and occasionally. You would be maxed out on the 255, and you don't run a machine maxed out all the time, you go up a class. Those collars would look butch with a bigger thread that the 255 can't handle. The needle system in the 441 is also much more robust. I have pretty much all classes of machines and when I try to push one of my medium duty machines because it has the correct thread in it and I can get the work under foot (read into this that Art is a lazy bastard), at least 75 percent of the time I end up with a broken needle. I realized it wasn't worth it a long time ago. Get the proper machine and put the cost behind you. Your collars will look more professional sewn and you will be able to finish your edges better. You can also use rivets for decoration in stead of Chicago screws, which will save money. You can also just rivet the top leather and the bottom or inside leather can be smooth. The machine will give you a lot of options both in decoration (stitch decoration instead of rivets) and construction. Art Anyone familiar with the consew 255? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 19, 2012 Thank YOU for the information. I appreciate it. Do you think the consew 255 can handle 4 layers of thick nylon for the nylon collars, or would the 441 be the better machine for that too? I ask only because as of now I can get the consew for $350 with table and motor. The man that has it doesn't use it...and said it was his wife's machine. He says it works, but knows nothing about it...and honestly, neither do I. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Thoughts on the techsew GA5-1 (new), GA5-1R (new), and the singer cylinder arm (used HERE)? The GA's I see don't have a walking foot, while the singer does...but I don't know how thick of leather the singer can handle. I also don't know what amp or phase the singer is...but I have seen similar machines without motors and could always buy a table and motor separately. Edited May 20, 2012 by ChimeraKennels Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
busted Report post Posted May 20, 2012 The GA5-1 is a Chinese knock off of the Singer 45. It can sew around 1/2" with no problem. It does not have a walking foot as you have found. It was designed to sew what you are wanting to sew cloth, canvas and nylon. It was used in WW2 to sew parachute rigging and other nylon stuff. It was not designed to sew leather. It is bottom feed machine with very aggressive lower feed dogs that will ruff up the leather. Another good machine for sewing the nylon would be a Singer class 7. You should be able to find one of these for 500 or less. Most of the Singers are single phase 400 to 900 watts. House hold outlet type electricity. Hope this helped. Thoughts on the techsew GA5-1 (new), GA5-1R (new), and the singer cylinder arm (used HERE)? The GA's I see don't have a walking foot, while the singer does...but I don't know how thick of leather the singer can handle. I also don't know what amp or phase the singer is...but I have seen similar machines without motors and could always buy a table and motor separately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the input. I suspected it was aggressive on the bottom as the videos do not show the bottom stitch...and I found that to be suspect about that type of machine. Plus, with this particular one being from China...I'll pass on it. I am not interested in supporting the Chinese market if I can avoid it. You gave me information that is important to me. Thanks. 1. I don't want my leather chewed up... 2. Buying American when possible is my first choice. Japanese would be my second. German third...Chinese last. I would rather buy used American or used Japanese over new Chinese. While some of the Chinese stuff I have purchased in the past has been fine (and this machine may be), about half the time I have been disappointed with the durability, quality, or user friendliness of Chinese equipment. Not to mention I suspect they will be owning many American banks (holding the titles to our homes) if we aren't careful about just how much of our market we continue to give them. Oops...I shouldn't open politics I suppose. LOL. That said...how thick of leather can this used singer cylinder arm machine (used HERE)? (UPDATE: Disregard my question about that singer in the link. I noticed the seller has zero feedback, and I am not going to send $1000 to someone with no feedback). Edited May 20, 2012 by ChimeraKennels Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted May 20, 2012 And you would be paying around $600 more than that thing would be worth in perfect condition. The link is for a Singer 153, really as Singer 111 with a cylinder arm. Nice machine, no reverse, and a really nice one goes around $400. It will sew about 3/8 inch leather or fabric. Like the 111, they really need a servo for leatherwork. Art That said...how thick of leather can this used singer cylinder arm machine (used HERE)? (UPDATE: Disregard my question about that singer in the link. I noticed the seller has zero feedback, and I am not going to send $1000 to someone with no feedback). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 20, 2012 And you would be paying around $600 more than that thing would be worth in perfect condition. The link is for a Singer 153, really as Singer 111 with a cylinder arm. Nice machine, no reverse, and a really nice one goes around $400. It will sew about 3/8 inch leather or fabric. Like the 111, they really need a servo for leatherwork. Art Are you familiar with the sailrite machines? I am impressed with their machines for the price. It may not be a good heavy duty machine for thick 1/2" leather....but it appears as if they would handle 1/4" leather just fine and have no problems with the nylon either. If this is correct, their machines would allow me to do about 90% of what I would do...and I could worry about a heavy duty machine at a later date for the leather collars. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 20, 2012 441 Clone or the real thing Adler Clone or the real thing No.9 or Classic Ferdnand 900 Bull Singer 97-10 If you find any of these for $1000, check them out very carefully because that price is way off what they should bring. I haven't been able to find one of these that looks reasonable. Sorry...but I am totally green so I am asking a lot of questions. I wonder if I should just go with the sailrite for now and just stick with nylon until I get more knowledge...but if any of you know where I can get a complete set up to "go now" with the leather without having to spend more than $1250-1500 delivered...please feel free to let me know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted May 20, 2012 The Sailrite is not good for leather, the whole machine is too lightweight. It is a good machine, but 1/4" nylon and maybe chrome tan is about it's limit, and it won't do that for a real long time. You really need to call Steve and Bob when they get back from the Show Wednesday, and check the Marketplace area of LW. Art I haven't been able to find one of these that looks reasonable. Sorry...but I am totally green so I am asking a lot of questions. I wonder if I should just go with the sailrite for now and just stick with nylon until I get more knowledge...but if any of you know where I can get a complete set up to "go now" with the leather without having to spend more than $1250-1500 delivered...please feel free to let me know. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) Two more... 1. What about the CB 227? I see it is listed to only handle 3/8" leather, but I was told it would handle up to 7/16." If that is true, noting most of my work will be less than 3/8" only only rarely would I go over that...and then only slightly...then this should handle all my needs I believe...and I could possibly come up with enough to buy this machine new. 2. What about the Tippmann Boss machine for an application like I am seeking? I see mixed reviews about it... Edited May 21, 2012 by ChimeraKennels Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Art Report post Posted May 21, 2012 Why go that way when you can get a powered machine for a comparable price? Like I've said, call Steve or Bob Wednesday as see what they can do for you. Art What about the Tippmann Boss machine for an application like I am seeking? I see mixed reviews about it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted May 21, 2012 I see Tippman Boss machines used for $800 (plus shipping), which is a lot less than $1700-2200 shipped. I do have reservations about the Boss though...and am leaning towards the 227 or the 3500 right now...but both of those would really out of my intended immediate budget. I may be able to come up with the funds necessary for one of those however later this summer. BTW, I spoke to Bob this morning. He seems like a nice guy...and confirmed my fears about the 2500 machine leaving marks on the bottom side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
