Help With Dry, Stiff Vegetable Tanned Upholstery Leather

[veggietanned]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post here. I realize this board is more for leather working however I figured you probably have the most knowledge about leather itself. I desperately need some help with a vegetable tanned leather sofa.

I bought the sofa at auction and when it arrived to my apartment, it was quite dry. The previous owner obviously didn't take very good care of it. After some research I found some products called Leather Doctor by a guy named Roger Koh. I had high hopes at first. These products were very, very expensive mind you. I went through the whole process following the guides every step of the way and in the end I was left with a even more dried-out sofa and nearly $600 worth of snake oil. His products ruined my sofa and he now refuses to help other than "buy more of my products to fix". Needless to say, if you ever come in contact with his products, DO NOT BUY.

Anyhow, I moved on and in desperation to try and save this beautiful leather sofa I picked up two jars of Dr Jackson's Hide Rejuvenator. Cost: $18.00 total. Did a few light coats. To be honest, it helped more than I thought it would but the damage done by the other products was pretty severe in the end. So, while I have gotten the leather to a usable state now (which is the goal - it is a sofa after all) I find that there are still quite a bit of bad areas. I have read up on the subject as much as possible and it seems that I've concluded (based on text read) that Hydrolysis (when the leather fibrils shrink and break down) is absolutely not reversible. So, I am assuming that since the other products I used from Leather Doctor contained so much water it actually sped up the process of Hydrolysis and after the sofa dried it was left in a worse state. So, not only did this guy sell my (expensive) snake oil, he ruined a very nice sofa.

So, I guess I want to know: can anything at all be done or is it simply too little too late? I am ordering some glycerin soap bars to make a soap flake solution (this is recommended by the sofa manufacturer) but beyond that I am worried that the sofa will not last long. I'm already seeing many small surface cracks on the cushions that were not there before using the leather dr product and I worry it will continue to get worse.

I know that I shouldn't sustain continued use of the Hide Rejuvenator so I only used to for a few small applications. Please help!

Thank you in advanced.

*Edit*

I should add that also after using the first products, the leather became quite stiff and has not fully softened even with the hide rejouvenator. I worry this will lead to breakage.

Edited December 7, 2014 by veggietanned

[DoubleC]

If the sofa was finished as it should have been and the Dr. Quack stuff didn't remove it there's not a lot you can do in this fragile condition. However what I use on my dried out stuff is plain ole bag balm. Cows like it alive and hides seem to like it too. Has glycerin in it. I really rub quite a bit on my stuff dried from alcohol or oil dies and let it sit over night. Any left, which is seldom, I wipe off with a white t-shirt type thing. I would try this cheap method first to see if it softens it up, them move onto to all the expensive stuff out them. Cheryl

[veggietanned]

Hi DoubleC,

Thank you for the reply. The sofa was definitely finished to standards. The manufacturer uses the highest quality construction methods and leather. It's a 50 year old design from Denmark. I'll certainly look into bag balm. I have the feeling that I may have to just simply accept the state as-is and keep it conditioned the best I can. I just want to prevent any further immediate damage. I realize, at this point, it will deteriorate over time I'm just hoping to prolong the death as much as possible. Parts of the sofa are quite nice and the patina is fantastic. Just some parts are failing quickly.

[unicornleather]

Once veg tanned hide gets to a certain dried out state it's more or less gone as you have found out.

Adding any further moisture to it in the way of fats,greases and especially OILS will make it worse and the snake oil seller should have told you this.

Oil if any kind used on it's own as with the snake oil by the sounds of it it NOT good for veg tanned hide.

Sounds as though the snake oil guy doesn't really know his stuff?

See my post number 29 on leather conditioner recipe for details on why oil is bad for conditioning leather, even when it's mixed with other products as the base ingredient which I suspect this snake oil product is?

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=46931&page=2

If you decide to use Glycerine it will eventually leave a residue of hard lumps we call them "jockeys" in the trade, you find them on saddles and bridles over here in the UK, hard black lumps that are the devil's own work to remove!

The fact you have said you have cracks in the hide leads me to believe your sofa MAY be too far gone but you have nothing to lose now really unless you wish to recover it with upholstery leather.

Most but not all upholstery hide today is made using chrome tanned hide which won't dry out like veg tanned, then you can get semi veg tanned, that is half chrome and half veg tanned, it will have the familiar leathery smell when new but has the harder wearing abilities of the chrome.

If you have to recover the sofa, try to get the semi chrome leather if you want the leather smell but you will have to condition it more often that pure chrome tanned leather.

Hope this makes sense!

Oz

[veggietanned]

Hi Unicorn,

Sorry I mislead you with the "snake oil" - it was just a phrase to mean that he sold me something worthless for a high price. I didn't actually use any oil on the sofa. The Leather Doctor products (the one that I am upset about) is a system that attempts to replicate the process of fatliquoring at the tannery to get the leather to 14% fatliquor content. I should have done more research on the guy and his products first as just googling his name produces many leather forums where he's trying to push his product (and people not being very happy about it).

Anyhow, what's done is done. I've been attempting to get my money back from the guy to no avail. I'm looking into contacting the Canadian consumer protection agency as well as my bank to see if anything can be done. Aside from that, the second attempt I made was using Dr Jackson's Hide Rejuvenator which really is thick and heavy but meant for dried out leather. It's helped quite a bit but I'm still not quite there yet.

I've been getting a lot of recommendations and reading a lot about Leather Honey. I'm hesitant to buy into another "product" but this sofa is worth saving. The sofa is worth keeping and recovering one day if it completely fails simply because it's an iconic design. Fredericia still produces them today but them are very, very expensive. The sofa is a Børge Mogensen 2213 in case that helps. If I were to recover it I would use the same (full veg tanned) leather that the manufacturer uses to keep with tradition however I would have full control of taking care of the sofa properly from the start. The downside to buying used is you can never tell how the previous owner took care of an item. I have no regrets. The sofa is built like a tank and, unlike most throw away things of today, this sofa's bones will outlive me easily.

Anyhow, I'm considering Leather Honey as a last resort for conditioning. I plan to call them on Monday with a list of questions. I'm very open to suggestions. Also, I should make it clear, I don't mind imperfections in the leather. It's something I love about vegetable-tanned leather is the patina and marks it takes over the years. It tells a story. My only concern is keeping the leather moist enough to be usable for as long as I can.

[unicornleather]

Hi Unicorn,

Sorry I mislead you with the "snake oil" - it was just a phrase to mean that he sold me something worthless for a high price. I didn't actually use any oil on the sofa. The Leather Doctor products (the one that I am upset about) is a system that attempts to replicate the process of fatliquoring at the tannery to get the leather to 14% fatliquor content. I should have done more research on the guy and his products first as just googling his name produces many leather forums where he's trying to push his product (and people not being very happy about it).

Anyhow, what's done is done. I've been attempting to get my money back from the guy to no avail. I'm looking into contacting the Canadian consumer protection agency as well as my bank to see if anything can be done. Aside from that, the second attempt I made was using Dr Jackson's Hide Rejuvenator which really is thick and heavy but meant for dried out leather. It's helped quite a bit but I'm still not quite there yet.

I've been getting a lot of recommendations and reading a lot about Leather Honey. I'm hesitant to buy into another "product" but this sofa is worth saving. The sofa is worth keeping and recovering one day if it completely fails simply because it's an iconic design. Fredericia still produces them today but them are very, very expensive. The sofa is a Børge Mogensen 2213 in case that helps. If I were to recover it I would use the same (full veg tanned) leather that the manufacturer uses to keep with tradition however I would have full control of taking care of the sofa properly from the start. The downside to buying used is you can never tell how the previous owner took care of an item. I have no regrets. The sofa is built like a tank and, unlike most throw away things of today, this sofa's bones will outlive me easily.

Anyhow, I'm considering Leather Honey as a last resort for conditioning. I plan to call them on Monday with a list of questions. I'm very open to suggestions. Also, I should make it clear, I don't mind imperfections in the leather. It's something I love about vegetable-tanned leather is the patina and marks it takes over the years. It tells a story. My only concern is keeping the leather moist enough to be usable for as long as I can.

The Børge Mogensen 2213 looks sturdy enough. I am not familiar with Leather Honey, so I would be interested to hear if it's any good or not?

I make all my own leather conditioner so I am not up on what's on the market now.

Here's my brand but I have got a basic recipe for anyone who wants to have a go at making some.

http://www.unicornleather.co.uk/leather_conditioner.html

Thanks for explaining about the Snake Oil, I can be a bit dense sometimes

Good luck with whatever you decide to do, let me know how you get on, Oz