Equimeasure

[Doug Mclean]

This was brought up in a conversation and I would like to know more about it. Is this a machine or a service? It sounds like something a maker would like to do for an older horse that was already performing at an event to help keep them fresh and going strong. I have always been convinced that a rope horses longevity depended on the shape of his or her back as well as all of the other conformation points.

How do I get involved with this equimeasure and how many $$$ are we talking about?

[David Genadek]

http://equimeasure.com/

[Doug Mclean]

Thank you for your quick response to my ?? I looked at the web site and it looks like it would do everything I would need to do. If you were building a tree to these spec. how much do you allow for blanket and skirt thickness?

[Jackie]

I had high hopes for using the equimeasure to accurately document my horses back shape, but was disapointed.

It was easy enough to follow the instructions and heat and mold the thermoplastic sheet to my horses back, but once I got home and relooked at the formed plastic, I thought, "Huh, that looks narrow". So I took my husbands orthopeadic calipers (Used for clamping across a persons hips - he is an orthopeadic engineer ) and used them to measure the width of my horse across the widest point of the ribcage and at the lower edge of the equimeasure sheet.

Sure enough the equimeasure sheet had closed up after removing it from my horse (I did wait until it was cooled to remove it). My horses width is 17" measuring with the calipers, and the equimeasure sheet measures 14".

Unless you have someway of measuring the width of your horse, I wouldn't be confident in using the equimeasure sheet by itself.

My 2 cents worth.

[Johanna]

I keep hearing that Dennis Lane's Card System is the new standard for horse saddle/tree measuring.

Johanna

[JRedding]

I'm not real familiar with them but I can tell you there's a few hundred of them outside the back door of the treemakers shop I use, I've talked with him about using them his reply was "just mark which side you'd like it to fit" after receiving hundreds of them he says they rarely get one that represents both sides accurately. Apparantly your horse has to be standing up perfectly square , without any slumping, and remain there with his weight distributed evenly on all four feet while it cools. We went out back and sorted through them nearly an hour and I couldn't find one that looked remotely the same on both sides. It kind of leads one to beleive either they don't give you a lot of usable information or there's a lot of really deformed horses out there. You might discuss it with the treemaker you use and find out if they consider it useful at all.

Edited March 30, 2008 by JRedding

[daviD A Morris]

Advantages of the "Dennis Lane" card system are:

- it instantly gives you a "size/category" or whatever you want to call it.

- there is no need to post anything to the treemaker or saddle maker, just tell'em over the phone or email as long as they use the same system.

- one set of cards measures an infinite number of horses, well infinite, untill the cards get damaged or lost!

- cost around US$50 - 70 including postage. price of the production line modells not set yet.

Disadvantage:

- the time that it is going to take for a number of treemakers to become familiar with it and work out which sizes of horses each of their particular trees fit.

The system is still in its infancy, still setting up that web site, and will need the treemakers and saddlemakers to be familiar with it. It certainly is not intended to be a "prescriptive system" which advocates HOW a saddle tree should fit, it just measures and categorises the horses back as it is on that day.

regards

DAM

[IanCantwell]

Advantages of the "Dennis Lane" card system are:

DAM

Being fairly new to saddlemaking and wanting a tree built for my awkward shaped horse (Appy with Arab/mutton back) I did some research into available methods of measuring my horse.

Maybe the experienced tree makers can comment and help me decide on which method they find most useful to them.

1) Probably the one I found most people writing about is the coat hanger or artist's flexi-curve. Seems a lot of messing about to me.

2) Came across the Equimeasure which I thought would be ideal except for 3 points.

a) Being in the UK this has to be shipped across the Atlantic three times (last time with my tree).

Some owners in the UK keep their horses 10 miles from the home kitchen.

c) Our ovens aren't big enough!

3) Found an alternative made in the UK. The Equiform by WOW Saddles. I asked them if it was big enough for a western saddle and they said yes but I have serious doubts looking at their site so I did some investigation on low-temperature thermo-plastics.

It seems the mesh they might be using is used to stabilise cancer patients undergoing radiotherapy. Q-Fix and Orfit in Belgium and the USA manufacture this material. Then by chance I found this site.

http://www.algeos.com/html/products/casting/casting.htm

I'm going to give their multicast product a go. It's available online and in sizes larger than advertised so I can be assured it'll fit the whole of my horse's back.

4) Finally I'm quite impressed with the Lane system. I can see the merrits of not having to post a template and if all the tree makers can standardise on a single system it would be great advantage to saddle makers.

In the meantime maybe someone can comment.

Thanks, Ian.

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Ian,

We have had both the Equimeasure and the Equiform sent to us. This type of system can work, but they are both short. Equimeasure has, I believe, a longer one or an extra piece to measure for a western tree. The instructions on the Equiform were sent to us and the owner had followed them. It started the form basically at the front of the shoulder blade so it ended mid rib cage - short even for an English saddle. She sent pictures which helped us figure out what to do for the back half of the tree. The disadvantages of any of these systems, besides their cost, the cost and hassle of shipping and the practical "one time use" thing is that they are very difficult to truly get correct as evidenced by the "just mark which side you'd like it to fit" comment above. They are helpful for sure, but there can be inaccuracies in them.

Honestly, the wires and drawings have worked the best in our experience. The price is right. They still need to be mailed but at a much cheaper cost than a box. If you draw on cardboard or a stiffer material, you can then cut out your drawing, put it back on the horse and check out your accuracy. If you didn't get it right the first time, you can redo it right away. As well, if you keep a copy you can, over time, observe changes in your horse's back. We also ask for the "side lines" or "rock lines" when people send these to us. A top line helps for a lot of things, but it doesn't necessarily correlate to rock.

The beauty of Dennis Lane's system is that it gives these things without the "messing about". You don't need to wonder if the curve moved as you were taking it from the horse to the paper. You can recheck any number of times. The system can be used many horses. And while there is an initial cost to obtain it, there is no cost to get the information to the tree maker.

Let us know how you make out with the different material - how easy it was to use and how accurate you feel it was. You never know when someone else will want to do the same thing!

[jonwatsabaugh]

Ian,

As Rod and Denise strongly suggested, I would opt for Dennis Lane's card system if I were you. They listed the inherent advantages and I strongly believe this will become a universal system...the first credible one our industry has seen. All ya gotta' do is e-mail the tree maker with the template numbers and you are there. I'm in the process of adapting and translating his system into my tree contruction as I hope others will do. Rod and Denise already have this deal figured out and I think it's working out pretty good for them.

Jon

[Traveller]

Just had a thought... if those of you who make trees (or the whole thing, from tree through finished saddle) can actually see the horse in person ( as it were), do you still need/like to have the information that a system like Dennis Lane's offers? Or can you take your own measurements as needed and move forward from there?

Thanks!

Joanne

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

For us, seeing the horse is the ideal - so long as we have a tree or three of our own to try on. (Trying on other maker's trees, while interesting, doesn't really help us a lot in figuring out how ours will fit. Something about differences between tree makers or something like that... ) While we are at the point now where we can look at a horse and say, "I think a this and that will fit him" there is still optical illusion that will get you now and then, especially in regards to rock. Different lighting, shadows, coat length and even color of the horse can affect how you see his back and we need to stay aware of that. Seeing a horse gives us a good idea. Trying on trees to check actual fit would be the "gold standard" but very few of the trees we build stay in our immediate area and some go a long way off. So seeing the horse they will fit is a real luxury.

This is where Dennis Lane's system really shines because you can actually compare a standard shape between horses. It is amazing how you will look at two horses standing in front of you and say, "They are way different" but when you put the cards on them, they measure the same. Or vice versa. As Jon has said, there has never been an industry standard for comparing shapes of horses. Dennis's system has the potential to be that. We have only made a few trees so far based on information from the Lane system, but they have worked well from the feedback we have received. (We don't make our trees to fit the shape of the cards. We make trees the same way we always have, but use the system to determine which measurements we will use to get the fit we want for that shape.) So we see this system as having the potential to be as useful as seeing the horse in person, and possibly as good as seeing the horse and trying on trees, but that may be pushing it a bit...

Edited May 29, 2008 by Rod and Denise Nikkel