want2braid
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Posts posted by want2braid
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There are two DVDs the Bryan Neubert made that really help, and also a DVD called Four Strands of Rawhide. I've never seen it, but it's on my list to get soon. Also, Gail oughts books have great illistrations, and there are braiding seminars posted on here sometimes. If you have a specific question, many on here including myself would be glad to help you get started, or help,through a challenging braiding technique. Best of luck!Brent C.
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Good deal, you are getting some good string cut. It takes good string, to braid good gear! I'm glad b/c Ms. Shelly is a great braider, and her idea is awesome. I found on my finer strands like calf, I barely wet it, and then put it in a bag and it condensates and gets way to wet. I think the paper towels in a tupperware would do the trick. Leatherpounder is also a very good braider I was fortunate to meet in Elko, last year at the poetry gathering. His idea works well, I have used that method on romal reins, and bosal bodies.
Aggie braider has a good thought. The clinic would be great to attend. Not just from help from Nate and Leland, but the networking with other braiders as well. There are other amazing braiders there that almost makes you wonder why they are there... but they too are trying to always improve their braiding, which is what keeps me inspired. There are several braiders that I can call, text, or email with questions. The other thing he mentioned was focus... that is right, I was the inspiration for that thought. I was bouncing around doing a little of everything, but had done alot of what they worked on and was just studying technique. The 2nd day I buckled down half a day and did a rawhide nosebutton, and learned a cool little method, I didn't think was possible! I'll be attending the advanced one in the fall, and if not interfering with reining/cowhorse shows, I may go to part or all of the bosal clinic in Feb.. Keep braiding and have a good one!
Brent
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Exactly, thats what I couldn't figure out. Why didn't both ends match for my skeleton knot. I have since got a diagram from my new friend in Germany that straightened me out. I hope to start braiding a "real" nose button soon on a "real" hackamore. Thanks for everyone's responses.
Jamie
I crown my strands starting in my left hand. For the pineapple/gaucho you go under the first strand, then over and under to the end. Then the 2nd under over, and so on, until the last one you take around the mandrel, rein/bosal bosy or whatever and then go under over under etc. to the bottom. Then you start braiding down by which ever side would start with under1 over 1. When you get to the bottom, to make it the same, I have turn it back when a strand from the left comes around, and follows a right strand up, and then turn back each in sequence, as you obviously know how to do. If I were to turn it back with the right strand coming around and following a string in my left hand it would be different. Some people crown the strands at the top by going over a strand, or whatever, and that would effect it. This is just ONE way to do it, the way I personally do as learned from rawhide and bitmaking guru Dave Klesper. You must have gotten the Tom Hall diamgram from Mr. Nagel? We have written books to each other on braiding! lol No rush, I have lots of practice buttons, and still go back to it. Best of luck! Try, try again, and it will come!
Brent
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Hey! I have made a pair that were 15'' cuffs and they were a little too small! They are darn pretty and just hanging in a collection, but next time Mr. Nate Wald said loop to button 17''. That means your initial braid 34'' + enough left to do your knot foundation however you do it! My hobbles are posted in my profile albums if you'd like to see them!
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Hey! I don't have a hansen, but a handmade cutter and beveler. What I use is 1/2 a wooden clothspin to put downward pressure on it as I pull it through. No hard just enough to keep it against the guide to cut straight. I also made a nicer stick out of hardwood with a square cut out of a corner and use it while beveling. I've found sharp blades make your string though, and obviously temper. I for sure found through Mr. Nate Wald, and Mr. Don Brown that I has a tendency to cut my string too wet and that made a real uneven cut, so I cut and braid my string alot drier now! Not dry, just drier. Not sure if the stick might help, but its saved my thumb learning. Best of luck and happy braiding!
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Hey! It looks like you turned your ends back differently on the bottom then the way you crowned them to braid down. So if you run you pairs out of the end, one side would be over one and one end will be under one! You can turn them back herringbone by over or onder 3. On the end its comes out over 1 you go over 2 more then under 2 then over 2 and so on. The end that comes out under 1 you go under 2 more, and then over 2, over 2 under 2 over 2 and so on. This will give you a herringbone interweave, but won't be turned back pineapple (inside the button) which would require both ends to be the same turnback.
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Here is the 12 strand trenza patria in the pattern that I described as learned from TCAA members!
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Hey!
I do the 12 plait Trenza Patria all the time now its a great braid! First of all it changes patterns and then changes sides. If you have 5 on the left and 7 on the right. You start out over 3 under 3, then the next strand under 3 over 2, then you will have 7 on the left and 5 on the right. On the left top string goes over 3 under 3, then the next strand goes under 3 over 2.
You need to make sure and tighten by pulling out, not downward or at an angle as it tighens a couple inches above the braid! I would post pics but I have a broken camera. Will post later! I hope this clarifies!
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Alan,
Just let me know! It would still be good to get anothers insight, it would just depend on horseshow dates. If you get it organized and dates let me know! Thanks! Brent
Just making sure everyone knows that Nate had to canceled! Nate has flooding at his ranch and has fences down. I'm willing to do it for anyone still interested. I'd charge $50 a day and it will be at my friend Jake Wiggins facility in Leonard TX. the format would remain the same, just bring along a project and we will work on things to improve. I have some Argentine and Brazilian braiding books and we can explore some of those knots as well. So, if anyone is still interested in doing something we can work out a date say late June early July. Jakes place is a horse training facility so we can also go over some practical applications of the gear we make!
Vaya con Dios, Alan
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Thanks,
I do have that! I finally found the first Bryan Neubert dvd to watch too, and I believe he ties a heel knot by going out side of the foundation instead of going under 2 that forms a x. If I remember right he said that this would make the knot grip tighter around the the groundwork, but I need to watch it to confirm my sometimes day dreaming! lol Thanks for the suggestion buddy!
Brent,
If you have Braiding Rawhide Horse Tack by Robert L. Woolery he does a fairly good job explaining doing interweaves beyond the foundation knot.
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Rob,
Yeah, I should have just went to an eight bight, and thought maybe, but my last nosebutton was too tight. The wonders of braiding. I just found you on facebook. I posted pictures of it just the other day when I got done. Going out side of the foundation like the way Bryan Neubert says to do a heel knot on the first DVD he made? I'll have to try and find it and see. The o3, and u3 is pretty cool though, its a unique look, so i'm happy with it being the first time and all, I was just mostly wondering about how to go outside the foundation like you said, and keeping the v's straight. Thanks, for the great tutorial, and all of the aftermath advice. Have a great week!
Hello Brent,
sounds like you could have gone to an 8 bight on that and been ok. But o3, and u3 has a nice look to it. As for turning back outside the foundation I'm not sure I can explain it but I'll try. When making the first pass, at the top, instead of crossing under 2 you would continue on up and cross over 2 before entering the foundation again. If I get some time soon I'll try and post some pictures.
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Hello! If you want to make it like a greased hide you can do like I do even to drum stuffed kangaroo hide. Its the old timer method of camp fuel and parafin(jelly)wax. You take a stainless pot and pour the white gas( also called Camp Fuel) by Coleman's, and then use a cheese grater to shave a bar of parafin wax into it, which makes it dissolve better. You stir it up and then put your string in. I spiral out whole hides, so I rough cut them at 3/4'' and throw that in before splitting, fine cutting or beveling. It gives i more body, stiffening it up a little that make it cut and split cleaner, but has a buttery/waxy feel. After I let it soak a while, I pull the long strand between my thumb and index finger to get out excess mixture, coil it up and let it hang to dry. The humidiy will determine how long this might take, but the camp fuel is highly refined so it evaporates quickly. I have left it in the mixture to long and it leaves a wax residue on the outside. It will simply buff off with a soft cloth and elbow grease. I hope maybe this could save your string... Have a great week!
Brent
There is alot of fluff on the underside where it seems to cut like crud, and it also seems like it has more stretch in those spots also. I might have a bad hide or I may have not ordered the right stuff. Either way I'm not giving up. I greatly appriciate your help and I promise ya that I'm taking all the information that your giving me and trying to get it figured out, so please know that your time and effort is not being wasted. I'm trying, and again thank you for looking at the pictures.
Annette
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Rob,
How's it going? I just tied my first single strand long button for the nosebutton on a bosal. You replied to me about a 3 wrap. I was wondering with the specs you gave me, how many bight do you usually use? I did a very short 6 1/2'' nosebutton, on a lariat rope for loping hackamore, so the diameter wasn't really big. I used 3/32'' string, 3 wraps, and 6 bights, and ended up making the whole thing over 3 under 3 to make it complete. I just built it up like expanding a heel knot, but I saw you said something about turning back your first interweave outside of the foundation? How do you go about doing that? Thanks again for the help, the strands I cut to your suggestions and braided up really nice for 16 plait 5/8'' body. Have a great week! Brent
Button strings are usually in the 2-3/32 range. I rarely get below 1.5/32 on any string. Maybe on string less than 2/32. The 3 wraps will cover in an over 2 under 2. If you want do an over 3 under 3 you would cut back on the bights. And turn back your first interweave on the outside of the foundation. Which I will do on some of the larger diameter bosals in an over 2 under3. There is a sort of magical ratio of width to thickness, I don't have it figured out. But I did have someone tell me once that the thickness should be aproximately 1/3 of the width. I like me strings to stand up a little more and most times I'm probablly over 1/3. The bosal in this post was braided out of latigo and if I remember right those strings were in the4-5/32 neighborhood. And maybe 2/32 thick.
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As Alan mentioned, that spot looks like the lime didn't get rinsed out, and then neutralized with vinegar. You can definately cut smaller discs out, around that area and get a lot of good string. If you try to spiral the whole hide into one big string and then cut out the parts that are bad, you won't get the length for say reins/romal, etc., etc. I've had those same spots and just cut around it. Your braiding is only as good as the string you braid with, so its better just to not use questionable rawhide, which in this case is the whiter area over the hind of that hide. That section usually has a different feel, even in the thick parts after you split it, it usually stretches alot like the belly, but that's just what i've found from my own mistakes.
It looks like you still did a good job, and have a lot of good hide still to braid with. Looking forward to seeing the finished gear made out of this hide!
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Alan! I went to the Nate Wald/Mehl Lawson clinic and really learned alot. I will be moving to OKC area at the end of the month. Horse show season will be an obstacle, but if you get the dates, time, place narrowed down, and there is no conflicts with the show schedule, I would definately like to come. So I can't say for sure right now, but if you have a maybe list put me on it and keep me posted! Thanks! Brent
Done! Thank you!
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Just a thought! I was asking around and found that some guys just cut the good discs out of a hide, instead of spiraling out the whole hide! That way you don't cross the back bone and you get 1 long even strand! It increases the yield. YOu may get 1 or 2 strands out of each disk depending on the size, and can use 2 hides to make one so long as they match in width, depth. bevel! Wayne Beven from Canada said that Holstein makes good rawhide, but you don't want to spiral through pigment change of white and black. The white /black on its own is good hide , but they just have two different feels. He said to try and get one that is 80% one main color and avoid the others. Maybe you can get discs of areas? I know cutting discs out of the last hide increased my yield!
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Nate helped with that for a good reason. Your button takes the shape of your groundwork. I made 20 buttons of 2.5/32'' and some were really good 8 bight pineapple and gaucho knots and others seemed lop-sided. The tape smashed out of shape as I tied it, and tighten as I went. Thats where the more stable rawhide or leather foundation comes in. Also, some people use a wrap of leather and put a brass tack through the body work and leather to anchor it, or Nate said you could grove the leather and take a needle and string under a few strands through the leather wrapped around the body, wrap around a few time tight and tie it off. With a grove there the string is flush with the leather foundation.
Yes. Nate really doesn't like anything "synthetic" (that is the impression I got). I wanted to do round knots and he had me tie a 4-strand ring knot as the foundation base. It is actually turning out really well. He builds foundations up with leather or rawhide and I believe uses Barge cement. The reason he does not like tape was that over time it will basically disintegrate and turn into dust. One foundation that I have used and like is to glue the area that the knot is to be braided over, glue a strand of excess leather lace, taper the ends and make a foundation. If it needs to be built up further, small strips of kangaroo or another thin leather would work. I think it is ok to use 1 wrap of tape. He just didn't want the foundation to be all tape.
I didn't really say what I do with the lace. I wrap it around and around until I have covered the area to be braided.
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Hey,
Your welcome! Just for your info, the 8 strings crowned to start is an 8 bight, like mine was 5. Its not doubled in bites and strings and thats why you can use 5 and 7 and not just 6 and 8. As Mike was saying you will count double the bites on a gaucho because you turn it back and go outside over a strand and back under two, so it makes it twice. A 6 bight gaucho 12 and 5 bite 10 etc. I ll try and take pics when I get back from Wyoming. And, let me know how the rawhide venture goes. I plan on meeting up with Clint, when I get to Oklahoma, so maybe you can meet us there?
Brent
Hey Ann,
Welcome to LW! Its always nice to get more braiders in here
Hey want2braid,
Thanks for clearing that up. I thought I had it right in my head, but when I tried to write it down it didnt come out right lol. I guess I should have written down more and taken a few pics thanks for doing that for everyone lol.
CW
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I have posted pics to facebook, how should I post pics on here? You are limited to the number you upload! Also, on the multiple string to do an 8 bight you use 8 strings, you braid down, turn back one end and make pairs then turn back both ends and split pairs until each ends strands intersect. An 8 bight would be the equevalent of a 32 plait braid. It has 8 up v's , 8 down v's, and and over 2 under 2 pattern, you count it out as 8 + 8 for the number of rows of v's up and down, which follow each bight, and multiply by how many strands it goes over. A 6 bight over 3 under 3 would be like a 36 plait, but a 6 bight over 2 under 2 would be like a 24 plait. Let me know what you want pics of, I braid multiple strings nosebuttons every week now, in nylon, or rawhide, and can post the stages you'd like to see.
Brent
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8plait nylon snaffle bit split reins. I created an asymetrical pattern its over 2 under 2 from the left and over 1 under 1 over 1 under 1 pattern from the right. This is a pair of reins that I braided for my boss's son had a benefit silent auction. Let me know of ideas for improvement, and thanks for taking the time to look!
Brent
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Thanks! I really try to get everything strait before I start the interweave. The terminal knots were tricky with the shape. Later I saw most people back off of the bights and build up to over 3 under3 or over 4 under 4 and even then add one row of color to fill in the space. I had more trouble building up to over 3 under 3 of keeping the straghtness. ANy suggestions? The ring I used is actually two rings side by side. I saw some Ortega hobbles in Santa Ynez like that, and really liked it. So I did it as well... Thanks again.
The ONLY thing that I can see that you should work on is there is a slight twist to your pineapple knots. This is something I struggle with constantly and I think it comes during the interweaves. I try and make sure that my strings are straight as possible before I do an interweave, and then when I am done, the knot has a twist to it. Not sure why this happens or how to fix it so sorry I cant add advice, but I did see it. I think you did an awesome job in your lace preparation, braiding, and lacing.
I was wondering where you got that ring though. I think its great for hobbles since its wider and flat.
Great job on these!
CW
Thanks! I appreciate that.
Agreed, those look really nice!
Thank you Rob for taking a look. I appeciate it. Ill post some more items as time permits!!!
Those are looking good. Keep doing what you're doing.
Thanks for sharing
Rob
Yes it is. Thanks for all of your input. I appreciate it. If you send me your email address or I can tag your pics in facebook of you in Elko, if you'd like them???
You are well on your way, just keep at it. Are those the same pair me and Charly saw in Elko?
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These hobbles are my first all rawhide braiding project. They are 8 plait body, laced together, 10 bight turks head with herringbone interweave in an over 2 under 2 pattern on the terminal knots, 8 bight turkshead with herringbone interweave in an over 2 under 2 pattern on the slide knots, and 8 bight turkshead with herringbone interweave in an over 3 under 3 pattern for the keeper knots. I would like to get some input on how to improve my rawhide braiding from other braiders and leather workers.
Thanks,
Brent
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Thank you very much for your time and efforts! I appreciate it. I just got on here and will post some of my braiding pics to get critiqued soon! Ive been braiding for about 2 years and am really driven to get better at it. Thanks for sharing your experience! You are definately a braider to look up to! Have a great weekend!
Button strings are usually in the 2-3/32 range. I rarely get below 1.5/32 on any string. Maybe on string less than 2/32. The 3 wraps will cover in an over 2 under 2. If you want do an over 3 under 3 you would cut back on the bights. And turn back your first interweave on the outside of the foundation. Which I will do on some of the larger diameter bosals in an over 2 under3. There is a sort of magical ratio of width to thickness, I don't have it figured out. But I did have someone tell me once that the thickness should be aproximately 1/3 of the width. I like me strings to stand up a little more and most times I'm probablly over 1/3. The bosal in this post was braided out of latigo and if I remember right those strings were in the4-5/32 neighborhood. And maybe 2/32 thick.
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Rob,
Thanks for all of the pictures and post of your nosebutton and heelknot. I have been braiding multiple string buttons and have wanted to try the single strand long button. I usually braid a 7 inch nose button. Do you just make a 3 wrap long button and it will cover in only an over 2 under 2 interweave? What size strand do you use for your longbutton? I was also curious about the size of the strands of the body of your bosal. The strands stand out, and I really like it. My body work has been rolling flat. They are 7/32'' by 1/16'' beveled only on the hair side. I was going to try and bevel the hair and flesh side and see if it helps. Any ideas????
Thanks again!
Brent
Nose Button
in Braiding
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If you are using the multiple string method you can use any number of strings. I use 5 on little diameters, 6 or 7 on medium diameters, and 8 on bigger diameters. You can use 8 on littler also, or any number. You just have to cut your string narrower, and split it thinner. I really like tying the single strand button too. It can only be done as 4,6,8, etc. just as the foundation in a heelknot. Even though it's called a single strand long button,myself, and those who tie nosebuttons with it a lot use a 12' to 16' strand to tie the foundation, then you can splice in shorter 8' to 10' strands or shorter if need be to finish your interweave. You just have to splice a new string in under 3 or 4 strands and continue in the previous strands path. Even if you use 3 strings you only have to bury 6 ends, vs. 16 ends on a 8 strand, multiple string button. The downfall is the groundwork and button string have to be exact to work out, where a multiple string button is easier to make fit on different sizes of groundworks by braiding shorter or longer with your foundation button.
Best of luck and happy braiding!
Brent