Teddyi

Thanks so much everyone for your thoughtful replies and kind words. I'll take the advice given and see if I can come up with a price. I don't believe Karsten would want the tree back as Kent declined to keep it when I asked him a few years ago. It might have been because the saddle was not exactly niche, but also not truly suitable for a wider range of riders. I'm 5'3" and 108 lbs. and my horse was short backed with lots of muscling over the shoulders and back/loins. As for my horse, I have had horses all my life and although I loved them all, he was exceptional. I raised him from a weanling and spent more time with him than anyone (human or animal) in my life. I took him everywhere with me, I started him under saddle, took him to clinics, trained him to Fourth Level dressage, chased more than a few cows on him, and rode him over all kinds of terrain in all types of weather. We had a bond that was unique and wonderful and he was the most amazing horse I have ever had. I was truly lucky and blessed to have had the time I did with him and I miss him every day.

A few years ago I had a young horse that I had fitted for a custom wade saddle tree by Kent Frecker. Kent finished the tree and while I was waiting for my saddle to be built, my horse sadly passed away unexpectedly. This was a few years ago and I asked Kent to send me the tree as I no longer had a horse for the saddle and I was too grief-stricken to think about buying another horse. I was hoping to have Kent make a saddle with this tree in the future, but sadly Kent too passed in 2021. I have kept this tree for years and have decided to sell it now. I'd appreciate any help on how to price it. It's a beautifully made tree and although it has sentimental value to me, I don't think I'll buy another horse anytime soon so I'd like it to go to someone who will be able to enjoy it. Thanks so much.

Keith, Thank you for the information, and for answering my questions. I sent you a PM also. I just talked to Kent and he just sold that saddle. It was on the website for maybe four days. Amazing! He said he has another one that is also a Brannaman Lite. 15" seat, QH bars, 4" x 90 degrees. Kent seemed to think that would fit an Andalusian well. He said that's the configuration Buck Brannaman uses, and he tends to be able to use it on a wide variety of horses. Might be that we're talking about a wide variety of QH's, but he thought it would work for me. Or, I can get on next year's list for a custom saddle. Will take 6 months to get it made. That would be great except that my riding season is May/June to Oct/Nov. So I'd need another saddle in the interim. I definitely don't want the saddle to pinch or be uncomfortable in any way. There are enough things to work out starting a colt without creating your own rodeo. And I really want my horses to be comfortable so they perform at their best. Thank you so much for tackling the seat size issue!! You handled a tricky subject quite tactfully. I've tried to get an answer both from the internet and from other people who ride without much luck. As you've said, I think it all comes down to personal preference. I'm not a very big person (5'3", 115 lbs, fairly muscular). My preferences with a dressage saddle tend towards the minimalist; deep close seat with a wide twist (I know not the standard for most women), with minimal thigh/knee blocking. I like to be able to move around a little in my saddle, and be able to swing a leg freely if I need to ~ especially when riding young or bronc-y horses. So, I guess a 15" could well fit me fine. I'm planning to drive to Freckers on Saturday to see if that 15" saddle fits me. Thanks again for all your help!! Teddy

Hi Adam, Thank you for your reply - and for posting the video of your friend's horse. He's lovely! And lucky her...she got to go to Spain to buy him!! As for fitting Andalusians, I agree that their conformation presents some unique challenges. Combine that with my colt's age and immature structure ~ and the fact that I know nothing about fitting a western saddle, and it's a daunting task. It would be so much easier to fit him to one of my dressage saddles, but I'm really keen to start him in a Wade saddle. Mostly because I'll be taking him to sort and gather in the near future. But I have to admit that I'm also fascinated with the Vaquero style of riding. Thankfully, I found this forum and have gotten some incredible advice from the experts here. Thanks again for your reply! Teddy

Keith, Thanks so much for more great information. And thanks for the nice comment on my colt's sire. He's a really nice stallion - very athletic and very nice type. I like them big, but not if they lose type or can't get out of their own way. They're supposed to be able to fight bulls after all. With luck, my colt will turn out as nice as his sire. I purposely chose him because he's so agile and athletic. So far, he isn't disappointing me. Although he did jump out of his pasture last summer. My pasture fence for him is 5' tall so I guess "athletic" can be a blessing and a curse. And what you said about fitting him to avoid creating resistance in training due to poor saddle fit is EXACTLY what I am concerned about. You hit the nail on the head!! I'm tempted to buy the Frecker's Brannaman Lite Wade since they rarely have them ready made for sale. I just happened to look on their website today and saw it. I asked Kent and he said it's QH bars, 15" seat. I suppose I could justify it by telling myself that resale is excellent on those saddles.... Here's the description: This finished Buck Brannaman Lite saddle weighs approximately 30-33 lbs. We have taken the regular Buck Brannaman tree and put a slightly smaller horn (4½" finished), used lighter weight leather, narrower stirrup leathers, narrower fenders, trimmed the skirts and jockeys down, and 4" stainless steel stirrups without heel blocks. Still using top quality materials, tree, leather, and hardware, this makes a great all around saddle. Available in 14-16½" seat size; your inseam length; and quarterhorse or thoroughbred gullet widths. And I'll post a picture so you know what it looks like. Do you think this would be a suitable saddle for my colt. (Well, aside from the possibility of it not fitting him when he's mature and the possible damage he could do to it when I'm starting him.) For this year I'll try the borrowed Crates and look at padding it correctly. I'm borrowing it from a friend who uses it on a TB mare with some withers, but big shoulders. She said it's not a narrow saddle. I'll find out the specifics when I see her this week. It may be okay for now due to my colt's immature frame. And I researched angle and rock and think I understand now. Thank you for the description and explanation! It made things much more clear to me. The saddle you described sounds interesting. Thanks for posting the photo. Something for me to consider as well. As for seat size, I suppose it must be a personal preference thing because I've been told I would take a 14" seat in a wade saddle. There are also a few gals I know who ride in a 14" wade and they're even slightly bigger than I am. Again, this is where dressage saddles are so much easier to fit. I ride in a 16-1/2" dressage saddle and know what fits and doesn't the minute I sit in it. With the wade saddles, I'm lost. Do you think a 14-1/2" wade would be better - or even a 15" wade? I know some of it is personal preference too, but this completely confuses me. I am happy to wait until after June if you think you may be in my area this summer!! That way you can write off your fishing trip as a business trip! Many, many thanks for your help with this. Teddy

Keith, Thank you so much for answering my questions and for your kind offer to help fit my horse. I'd love to have your expert advice on fitting this colt! I'm about a 3-1/2 hour drive from you - through the Park - tourist traffic and moose/elk/bear jams excepted. Maybe we can figure out a convenient time/date for me to trailer him up to you and you can tell me what you think. Or, if you're planning to be in my area at some point in the near future, maybe we can meet and you can take a look at my colt? Although I think it may be the best use of your time to do this next year when he's three? As for fitting Andalusians, they differ vastly in body type anymore (similar to Quarter Horses now). They used to be fairly predictable in conformation, but with the popularity of the breed in the US, the breed type has undergone quite a bit of change. Now you can find Andalusians ranging in size and shape from pony-like to draft-like. If it helps at all, I've attached a picture of my colt's sire. His sire is incredibly prepotent, and his breeder feels my colt will turn out very similar to his sire in body type and proportion. For reference, his sire is 16.2H. His dam is also 16.2H and I only have video of her - no still pictures. She is slightly longer in the back than the sire, and has slightly more muttony withers with a slightly broader back. John at Flat Creek has a new McCall Lady Wade with QHB that he said I could try on my colt. I actually would have purchased that saddle last year (for another horse) except for the fact that it's a 14" finished seat, and although it fit me fine, I was concerned that I might want another 1/2" or so of room. I've been told that for big moving horses, a slightly larger seat is a good thing. I don't know if that's true or not, but I imagine 1/2" bigger isn't going to hinder me, whereas a 1/2" too small would. I'd be interested to know if you agree with the 1/2" bigger seat for big moving horses theory. Thank you for describing what I need to look for with respect to the McCall saddle in particular. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that the Timberline bars have too much rock in the bars - in layman's terms this means curve (i.e. like the rockers on a rocking chair?). And angle of the front bar pad not being too wide at the bottom - do you mean angle as in flatter or steeper as it relates to the horse's back? Sorry, complete layman here. I've taken a look at the Diamond Wool panel pads and they look interesting. I'll see if John has any in stock. I do have two other options; borrow a friend's Crates saddle (I believe its the Light Versatility saddle with a rawhide "TMBR" tree) or Frecker's has a 15" finished seat Buck Brannaman Lite saddle for sale. I've emailed Frecker's for the full specs on the saddle, but I'm thinking I'd hate to start a colt in a $4,500 saddle that also may not fit him when he's four. Thank you so much for your patience and help!! Its very much appreciated. Teddy Billy, Yes...Keith is extremely nice to give me so much of his time answering my questions. I'm very grateful for his help. Will also jump at the chance to have him help me with saddle fit for this colt. Teddy

Thanks for the advice CW and Bob. I think I'll try to get a used Lady Wade McCall for now and pad it up. I have a 1/2" Five Star wool pad, and will look into either a 3/4" or 1" Five Star pad OR a specialty pad to use for now. CW - the Five Star pads are all wool and very dense. From my understanding of the Five Star pads, as long as my saddle fits properly, I'll only need a 1/2" pad. Their rep told me because of my weight (about 115 lbs give or take) and the fact that I'm not roping anything bigger than calves, I should stick with a 1/2" pad. She said if I plan on roping bulls or large steers, then I might want to use something thicker. Although this is a special situation, and to fit this colt right now I'd try a 3/4" to 1" pad unless it makes the saddle slip around too much. Thinking of looking into a specialty pad as well. Bob - I plan on getting a really nice saddle made for this colt someday, but definitely not this year. Andalusians mature very slowly, so he'll likely not be done growing until he's 7 or 8. Will look into a really well made saddle when he's 4 or so. Keith and Bob - I realize it's hard to tell at this point, but can you give me your opinion on whether or not it's reasonable to assume that a FQHB Timberline tree on a McCall Lady Wade saddle will be too wide for my colt right now? I understand that he's going to change a lot, and that you'd only be providing an educated guess, but your educated guess is probably a lot better than mine. I'm just looking for advice to help me buy a saddle that could work for now. I'm thinking I'll try a QHB McCall Lady Wade and pad it up for this colt. Anything wrong with my trying this route? The saddle shop in town does have a McCall Lady Wade with QHB that I can try on my colt to see if it will work for the time being. Thanks so much everyone for your help!! Teddy

Hi Keith, Thanks so much for the information. In the past I've always started colts in one of three dressage saddles I have, but have been looking to start this one in a Wade type saddle. I find fitting dressage saddles far easier than fitting western saddles (probably due to my inexperience with western saddles). It seems as if everything on a western saddle is hidden under layers of sheepskin and leather - and I have a hard time figuring out exactly what's where. In contrast, dressage saddles seem to be very obvious if they fit or not and there is so much less "stuff" to get through. I'm thinking of buying a McCall Lady Wade saddle for this horse. McCall uses Timberline trees and I'm thinking their QHB tree would fit him when he's three and four...possibly even when he's full grown - and may work out now with the correct padding. Given this general information, do you think I could get by with buying a McCall Lady Wade with QHB and using a 1/2" or 3/4" Five Star wool pad? Or, even getting a specialty pad? I've spoken with three McCall reps; one told me I would only need the QHB tree (not the FQHB tree), one told me I could use the QHB tree or the FQHB tree and the other had no idea. My concern with the FQHB tree is that it will be too wide and sit too low on his withers. It seems as if this colt changes shape from one day to the next right now, and he is currently butt high which makes him appear to have a dip in his back. He also has big shoulders and an incredibly short back.. Fitting him right now will be a challenge for sure. Thanks so much for your help! Its much appreciated. Teddy

Hello All, I'm new here, and am hoping you can give me some help with deciding on a new saddle. I'm looking to buy a new saddle for a young horse I'm planning to start this summer/fall. Because he's only two years old, I'm only going to introduce him to the saddle and maybe put a half dozen rides on him. After that he'll go back to pasture until next spring when I'll put a few more rides on him. He'll start real work when he's four. I need to buy a saddle for this colt, but am thinking that it may be better to wait until next year when he's three to have a better chance of fitting him properly. I have a saddle I can use to start him this year, but it may not fit him well. For that reason, I'd prefer to buy a saddle for him now so I know it will fit him and not cause any problems. The caveat is that I'm not sure its wise to try to fit him now since he'll change quite a bit over the next few years. I've been looking at the McCall Lady Wade saddles and have no idea what will fit him. I also thought about having a Double H strip down made because I like the weight (only about 15lbs. give or take) and the freedom of movement in the fenders. Although that will take 5-6 months. To give you an idea of my horse, he's an Andalusian. Both his parents are 16.2H so we estimate he will finish somewhere around there. He has an extremely upright neck with big shoulders, a very short back and semi-muttony withers. Since he's two, he's got a lot of growing to do. Any and all help will be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much.