gunny5821

Turner Saddlery, Inc. Maker of the only Ordnance Dept/Arsenal Correct M1907 Slings in the U.S.A

Biography and Company History

First off and above all, I would like to recognize my Mom, Kay Turner, who worked with me in the shop from 1994 to 2011, until her health began to fail. Many had the opportunity to talk with her on the telephone over the years, from anything to placing an order, or having questions answered. Some customers enjoyed her personality so much she said guys were calling just to say hello. She even had some calling, asking for "Granny Kay", as she was known to family and friends. She was just that way. Many probably don't know, but we lost her to leukemia two years ago.

Back when I first got serious about turning out rifle slings, 1988, I had already been making holsters, cuff cases, and belts for fellow agents I worked with in CID and NIS (now NCIS) while I was stationed at Lejeune and Pendleton (made my first holster at age 14). I rebuilt many saddles while at Pendleton (MWR base stables) and the old McClellans the base color guards were using.

The first real old time saddle and holster maker I had a chance to learn from was Mr. D.W. Smith, who had an old time saddle shop in Mira Loma, CA, (Riverside County). D.W. was in his eighties at the time, and had made a lot saddles and holsters for many of the old "B" Western stars, such as George "Gabby" Hayes, Texas Ed, Noah Berry, Charles Starret (The Durango Kid), Lash LaRue, and many others. Man that was right up my alley. D.W. had a photo album with autographs and letters of thanks from all the western stars for holsters and tack he had made for them over the years. I wish I had paid more attention to saddle making, but was primarily interested in old west holsters. I spent many a Sunday with D.W. in his shop, which looked like Judge Roy Bean's Saloon/Courthouse in Pecos, TX. I remembered when I showed D.W. one of my first M1907 slings, he was almost offended. He thought I was backing up, and said "Son, that's what beginners start out with, your not going to make any money that way".

When I returned home to Alabama, I tried to stay in contact with D.W., and after a year or so lost contact with him. They eventually bulldozed down his saddle shop to widen the highway. Through D.W., I was able to meet Gene Autry and Roy Rogers, and spending time with Dusty at the museum. Had a deal to reproduce one of Roy's rigs, but was never able to keep the cost low enough for sale in the museum.

I also got to meet John Bianchi and spend many days at the factory. To this day, I still believe I would not be where I am today without Mr. Bianchi's assistance. Mr. Bianchi was always willing to answer questions and point me in the right direction for hardware and leather. Through Mr. Bianchi, I first learned of Hermann Oak Leather. Remember, there was no internet to speak of in the mid-eighties. He had a huge reference library of every leather and hardware related catalog that was available, especially since he was heavily involved in military contracts. That is how I located the hooks for the M1907 that Brookside Manufacturing made, (later bought out by Waterbury). Due to Waterbury discontinuing the hooks/frogs, we had our own dies made to the original Rock Island Arsenal specifications and are running parts in house.

The upstart of making the M1907 was also due in large part to Gus Fisher, MGySgt USMC Ret., who was the Team Armorer at Edson Range in the late 80's. Gus and I met one day while I was in Ransbergers Cal Custom Gun Shop, Fallbrook, CA (I also lived in Fallbrook). I told Gus I was interested in building the M1907. He invited me out to the range where he gave me a handful of old salvaged hooks and loops. Gus was already working with leather at that time. In 1989, I approached Maj. Jim Hill, USMC Ret., owner and founder of Creedmoor Sports, Oceanside, CA. Major Hill gave me the first shot at going commercial with the slings. I had to go this route since it was starting to become a conflict of interest, what with being a CID Agent and active duty Marine, having supply sergeants and supply officers calling the CID Office asking for the Marine who makes service slings. Major Hill saw my predicament and said he would stock the slings so as to keep me from going to the brig. I really have to give kudos to Major Hill, great man to work with (at times I think I was working for him). In the beginning I was making the M1907 with a 50" long strap. It was Major Hill's idea to make the sling longer, especially since the Division Matches were beginning to use the M16A2 rifles. He then asked that I make the slings thicker. It was also his idea to number the adjustment holes, as he said it would help and bolt gun slings were already numbered. He also suggested making the keepers wider than the 5/8" or 3/4" width, which is what was mostly encountered on the MRT contract slings, so at his suggestion, I went with the 7/8" width.

Then comes the thickness issue, it has been discussed many times on many forums, but I will never make a sling thicker than the legal limit in accordance with CMP/NRA rules and regulations, which is 3/16" (12oz leather). I gauge every hide to make sure it is to spec. One reason is, I don't like the thought of a shooter attending one of the sanctioned matches and getting disqualified for a sling being too thick. I have seen it happen in the early nineties at Camp Perry, and have talked to a few shooters who got bumped at a local match. To me, I would rather follow the rules, plus I don't want to run the risk of getting sued, heck, fast food joints are getting sued for serving coffee too hot. Some people will sue over anything, just watch the news. The way my luck goes, if I made a sling over spec, I would be the one who gets popped with a lawsuit, taking into consideration all the money, time, and travel involved in getting to the Nationals and finding out your disqualified for having a sling that is too thick or keepers too wide. I don't know, maybe these rules are not enforced as strictly as they used to be. I have seen on other forums, those who have said "they like a heavy sling", "that it is a petty rule anyway", and that "one would probably not have any problems at local matches", but "they might rethink using a heavy sling if they went to Perry".

The whole issue of thickness and keeper width is how I come to know R.O. Dick Culver, Major USMC Ret. I had a shooter come in the shop in the mid-nineties, who had just returned from the Nationals at Camp Perry. He said he had been disqualified for using a sling that was too thick and keepers that were too wide and large (was not one of mine). I told him I would call up to Camp Perry and see if I could get some information for him. The lady who answered the phone said she would find someone to help, it was Dick Culver (he was working for Colonel Willis). That was the first time I had talked to Dick. Didn't really know who he was at the time, but got educated real fast, Dick said the current CMP regulations were that a M1907 sling strap could be no thicker than 3/16" and the keepers had to be 3/4" wide or less. I informed him that I had been making the keepers 7/8" wide for 5 or 6 years. He said it was not legal and to change the keepers back to 3/4". I asked what would I have to do to get a review, and he stated the only way was if it was deemed as issue equipment. I told him that various service units and supply organizations, including the Marine Corps Team at Quantico had been purchasing the slings with the wide keepers for years. He said are any in use by combat units, and I said they were being used on the M40A1 as a kit sling, and the Army and Navy had bought the slings in limited quantities. I provided him with a DOD Cage#, and the issue went up for review and the keeper width was approved for the 7/8" width. Once Dick and Gloria returned to Idaho, we connected again, attending many shows across the country, GCA Conventions, as well as the Soldier of Fortune Convention in Vegas. We became life long friends with Dick and Gloria, and both have been very instrumental in helping us get to where we are today. Sure do miss the Major, as most know he passed away back in February. Through Dick Culver I met a lot of folks who I would never of had the opportunity to meet otherwise.

All of our NM slings are 10 to 11 ounce thick (leather thickness is measured in ounce weight, one ounce equates to 1/64"), with a half ounce MILSPEC variance. Our leather once it is cut into strap form is pre-stretched and broke in by hand, then moistened and ran through a combining machine, which has two heavy rollers to even out the thickness and to reduce stretch, this machine is approaching 100 years old. This allows one to start with a strap an ounce or so heavier and reduce it down in thickness while at the same time eliminating as much stretch as possible. Also, every M1907 type sling we make has to meet the guidelines of the Berry Amendment/U.S. Compliance Code in order for us to compete in open purchase contracts.

During this same time frame, it was my idea to start stamping NM on the service rifle M1907 Slings, to easily differentiate them from the standard issue M1907. I was contacted by one of the snipers who worked for the San Diego PD Swat Team, who suggested I start dying the NM version black and I should call it the "Police Tactical Sling", I went with his suggestion and the sling took off. His reasoning was that the police departments would not be interested in a sling that had a military connotation, too militaristic he said, (boy, departments sure have changed today).

I had shot several times with Norm Chandler, LtCol USMC Ret. (mid 80s), who was at that time a Major and XO of Weapons Training BN, Quantico, VA. I contacted LtCol Chandler while he was CO of Stone Bay, Camp Lejeune, NC, he had already started Iron Brigade Armory in anticipation of retirement. He was also a great influence in regard to technical support and the needs of the sniper community. I sent LtCol Chandler some of my first M1907 slings and that relationship continues today. LtCol Chandler and his brother MSgt Roy Chandler, USA, Retired, authored a series of books on the history of U.S. Marine Corps Sniping titled "Death From Afar" and "Carlos Hathcock White Feather" USMC Scout Sniper. Iron Brigade Armory http://www.deathfromafar.com/

I used to attend many gun shows in the SoCal area and one weekend, I had a sack full of slings and met Ken Fladrich, who later opened the Armory of Orange with Mike and Dave, Ken was kind enough right on the spot, to let me share table space at the Great Western Show in Pomona, CA. I also had a lot of assistance from Mr. Lu De Le Fortrie, who is very knowledgeable in U.S. Military accoutrements and a collector of military sniper rifles. We continued to set up at shows together while I was based at Pendleton. My first big opportunity as far as holsters go, was to meet John Terlesky, an actor in the CBS series "Guns Of Paradise" and made several period western rigs, one of which he used on the show.

Once I returned home in 1991, I set up a full size saddle & harness shop, but slings seemed to be the mainstay. I soon became acquainted with and friends of Thad Rybka of Thad Rybka Custom Gun Leather and Ken Campbell of KC Custom Gun Leather, both locals to my area. They were already master holster makers in their own right, and both have had their holsters featured in most of the major gun magazines. We visit each other often and trade ideas and share common problems within the trade.

I made over 100 U.S. M6 Scabbards for the M3, for the movie "Saving Private Ryan" We did have a shot at about 6,000 slings for the movie, but there was no way, as they needed the slings on site in Ireland within eight weeks. Looks like they used the outfit that makes the slings with the thin gilt plated hardware and tubular rivets, it is definitely noticeable when watching the movie.

Most recently, we are honored that our synthetic version of the M1907 Sling made from Biothane, was used in the movie "American Sniper" on many of the bolt action sniper rifles. It was logical as we have been providing the M1907 style sling to the U.S. Navy for SEAL Team use since 2002.

We are still a family run shop, only three of us, myself, wife Camille, and son Stuart age 17. We are still operating out of an addition to our old barn here in Clay, Alabama. A lot of the equipment I use here in the shop to turn out M1907 Slings either came out of one of the arsenals or is the same make and model vintage equipment that was used during WWI and WWII. All the leather M1907 Slings have the correct oblong holes and are punched on vintage reciprocating punch presses identical to the ones Boyt used during WWII. I have traveled the country over the past 25 plus years acquiring the vintage equipment we use everyday in the shop. But the most difficult part has always been hardware suppliers, two rivet companies and three hardware companies have either closed their doors or discontinued the hardware over the past 25 years. Kevin built the dies, but I guess I'll have to spend time at his shop punching parts and then Parkerize them just as I have the "D" rings for years. Thankfully the die shop is just up the road a ways.

Regards

Richard L. Turner

GySgt USMC Ret