I've been practicing with a couple Barry King petal lifters as well as a ck undershot beveler. In Likewise's book they say that a lifter is never an undershot and an undershot is never a lifter, but some schools of thought say the lifters can do both. Either way I'd appreciate any incite or tricks with the use of these tools. The undershot works for the tight inside curves of petals, but the lifters only pinch the cuts and put a dark burnish in the scallop( I understand casing plays on this but that's workable), and they don't seem to lift, but push back the petal exposing raw leather. I hope this makes sense. Thanks in advance for the look.