tnestes

Some individuals can learn more in one day with a guy like Steve than others can in a few months. Educated viewpoint- it's quality, not quantity that counts. As any thinking person would know, it's based on what you've done up to that point that dictates how much of the "finer points" can actually be learned, and the quality of it. I'm still applying what I learned from Mecum (a guy who I might add never speaks on such forums as this, maybe that states something?) - endless photos and endless notes, not from production videos. I had made many nice saddles before ever hooking up with Steve, so, yes, I DID learn a heckuva lot of finer points from him, and am still applying the lessons in my shop. I am not condescending, nor am contradicting what I state on my website. My goal is to make every saddle better than the last. Your statement about strainers being a shortcut is an opinion, your opinion. Reserve your judgment and show a little respect for others' ideas.

Been busy in the shop, and thus a while since I've been online. For your information, and insinuation, I learned the finer points of saddlemaking in Steve Mecum's shop, not a video. He uses strainers.

Yes, I tan-cote as a top finish, but I didn't know that was the problem. THANKS. Ted

I was recently caught in a rain shower while riding a saddle with a Fiebings antique finish. "SPOTS" from the rain droplets stained the seat while taking the saddle off. Any suggestions on how to remedy this? I know now why some saddlers don't antique.

Exactly. If the seat is well done, it's well done...period.

The BEST? Well, TCAA members would be a good place to start. As far as I know, they all use strainers. "Insulting?" There's no need to be so easily offended. People who are confident people in what they are doing are not, (easily offended, that is). Furthermore, if you look for something to get irritated about, you'll find it quicker among saddlemakers than anywhere else, so I've found. I could have gotten offended when someone stated earlier that strainers are "short-cuts." I didn't, though. I guess it's because I know how to put it a very comfortable ground seat using a strainer. I have room for improvement, and I admit it. However, I WILL continue to use strainers. And yes, DALE HARWOOD IS, IN MY OPINION, THE BEST SADDLEMAKER EXTENT. Regards, Ted

DALE HARWOOD uses seat tins. Would Dale take a "short-cut?????" The BEST makers use seat tins/strainers.

"Regionally" may be the key word you used. I've made some saddles that went to Texas, and these particular guys wouldn't have a wade. And then there are others who act as if they didn't know there was anything but a wade saddle. Saddles are like lots of other things, meaning styles change from time to time concerning what's in vogue. Apparently, the swellfork is on the comeback trail overall. In addition, I've always wondered why someone buys a wade, then uses bucking rolls on it all the time? I appreciate the discussion! And you make some VERY crisp, clean looking saddles, too, friend!

You've made a great point. I know so many people who drive those 50K+ vehicles, have horses worth several thousand, and yet want to "poor mouth" about the price of a custom saddle?????

Recently, I was told that wade saddles (custom, of course) tend to hold their resale values better than a swellfork. However, another maker, probably in the "top three" catagory, informed me that he was making about as many swellforks these days as wades. All things being equal ( i.e.- same tree, leather, level of expertise), might this be the case? Any thoughts on the subject?

I fully agree, Rod. Your ideas make the most sense of all!

Weaver in Ohio now offers a woolskin that's white, rather than golden. It's still bark-tanned, of course. Many of the good old saddles I've owned by such reputable makers as Hamley, Wofford, N. Porter, etc. had been lined with this white variety of woolskin. I just lined my last saddle with it, and really liked it. It's a little different in appearance from the contemporary standpoint, but, still a nice think pile. I've got yet another black wade to complete, and the lady actually wanted this white woolskin as opposed to the golden. Who knows, it may catch on.

Cool off. Nobody's yelling at anybody here. I just wish we'd all stay on topic, which is why I did what I did. The brunt of what I was getting at went off on a highly unintended tangent. Anyway, back to my intended subject. One of the prettiest "post horn" saddles I've ever seen was done by Paul Van Dyke, and he used the method I want to learn more about how to do- covering the horn with wings, not a wrap. Heck, the horn on this saddle was not even round, it was a guadalajara horn. This was different than the "norm," sure, but not wrong. Of course, you can use this method with wings, and still use a "temporary" mullhide wrap for roping/dallies, and wing protection, right? I've always admired the saddles from the 40s, 50s, and 60s when makers often used the big Mexican horns with hardly ever using a wrap. Over history, from what I've studied, saddles are like clothes- styles change, leave, come back in style, etc. Again, I appreciate your help very much.

Allow me to explain myself here, please. I did not mean to offend ANYBODY about the full stitch method for covering wood post horns. I got to thinking about this after reading an article by Dick Sherer where he stated something to the effect that he'd feel a little cheated if he removed the mullhide wraps from many 4K saddles today and saw some of the tree. THIS IS NOT THE POINT OF MY TOPIC ANYWAY. THE POINT IS TIPS FOR COVERING HORNS THE TRADITIONAL WAY. THANKS.

I said (quote) "please don't take me wrong." I'm not sure how much nicer I can be. I also said I do it as well. My sincerest apologies for appearing "abrasive." THAT WAS NOT MY INTENT AT ALL. The only thing I'm trying to do is get some help and ideas. I certainly appreciate your sketch, too.

JW, Let me go in reverse here. When I use the choke strap, both the wings and the strap are soaking wet, I mean really cased. I still get that darned burnished effect afterwards that inhibits dying and/or antiquing. The photo of the type horn I'm refering to can be seen under "saddle makers gallery- full-floral carved saddle on Rick Reed tree." It's already finished, of course, and I used the full-stitched method, which you obviously prefer. I have to disagree with you on which method takes the most skill, though, in a very friendly way. However I fully agree on which method is easier to replace! That saddle I'm refering to is a wood post, but I had Rick to do it in a round, duckbill shape, and Rick would not do it in less than a three in neck diameter, (for strength reasons). So, I'm still hoping somebody can scan me a rough sketch of the wing shape, maybe?????? THANKS FOR THE TIME JW! Ted

Many saddles today have horn caps with the stitching all the way around the horn, and finished with a mule-hide wrap. When you really think about it, especially after covering a horn the traditional way with wings AND NO FINISHED HORN WRAP, this new method is something of a cop-out. Please don't take me wrong, I do this method, too. Anyway, I'm going to be covering a duckbill type horn (lots of underbelly), 4" non-finished cap, with about a 3" diameter neck,and at a 28 degree pitch. Could somebody send me a sketch of how to shape the wings on the initial pattern? Also, I use a latigo choke strap to tighten up and finish the wings on the final procedure. However, this burnishes the wings to the point that they do not want to take any dye or antique. What can be done about this? THANKS to any of you pros who might render some advise! Ted N. Estes tnestes@yahoo.com

Steve, I'm all with you on this point. I tried what most would argue to be the two "top" production tree makers. One group sent me a tree (the last one I ordered from them) that I would have been ashamed to send someone- very uneven on the bars, the rawhide was sticking out from the tree 1/4" behind the cantle on one bar, etc. The other company treated me over the phone like they're doing ME a favor by building me a tree???? I will spare the details here, tactfully. I like dealing with Rick Reed for my trees. Rick's not only a true professional at his work, he's the kind of person you can talk to and he treats people using the good old "golden rule" that many, many folks no longer go by today. I'm thankful to have hooked up with Rick through Steve Mecum. It seems that lots of companies will send you a good product, the first few times, then start sending you lower quality stuff.

Greg, You are exactly right on the layout-design. I certainly hope to remedy that some, if not a lot, on my next saddle I put a full carve job on. I've got a long way to go, but hope to get there! THANK YOU sincerely for your input! Ted N. Estes

Thanks for the suggestions, Greg. Steve Mecum told me he had never made a saddle he was totally satisfied with altogether. He's made near 500 saddles, too. With that in mind, I personally feel my saddles are better than so-so for the number under my belt, and so do all my customers. They speak on my website much louder than I do. I'm all with you on the design challenge. It seems now like carving it is almost easy compared to designing a great pattern. Tooling is a matter of preference, and everybody has to develop their own "style." Speaking of greats, some of Dale Harwood's older saddles hardly have any stems at all. It just appears like mostly leaves and flowers. On the other hand, Cary Schwarz's patterns appear to be mostly stems and circles, with the leaves, flowers, etc. in the background. It's all matter of opinion and preference. You can rest assured, though, I will continue to seek improvement. THANKS AGAIN! Ted

Mainly just showing, as I'm my own worst critic by far. I certainly know how to make this saddle even better next time- and will do so. However, I'm open enough to take some friendly advise. I studied under Steve Mecum a little over a year ago, and got some great tips from him on construction and carving. I took pictures of previous saddles, and we sat down and critiqued those. I've only been carving/designing for about 18 months- part time. I teach school and make saddles. My goal is to ONLY make saddles. But, you have to crawl before walk, walk before you run, and so on.

Thanks for the compliment. The tree has a 94 degree (6 1/2" gullet) bar spread, 13" swells, 16" seat, and a 3 1/2" high cantle. I used heavy number 1 Hermann Oak skirting throughout, and finished it with a dark brown antique. Almost forgot, the tree is by Rick Reed- some as good, none better in my opinion.

Dark brown antique.

This is number 18 for me. The design is totally mine- no patterns but my own. Of course, the next one will be better. And, it's my first go at a full floral saddle. God willing it won't be my last. http://www.estessaddlery.com/Saddles_For_Sale.htm Ted N. Estes

THANK YOU for the compliment, Kathy. My goal is to make a saddle that an individual can sit in all day, day after day, that's very comfortable for both the horse and rider. And, yes, Wickett and Craig tends to be spongy around the edges, but they usually send me bigger sides than Herman Oak. So, my yields from either are about the same. I will always have a place for Wickett and Craig leather in my shop, (so long as they don't change anything!).