Edge-Kote?

[JPH]

Howdy!

Ok it's the PITA again...with yet another question..

I firgure I will tackle this leather working dilemma one step at a time..get one propblem solved and then move on to the others in turn..

OK I know how to make a OK but "rustic" (and how!!) looking sheath using welt construction and the single seam up the back.ones.. What I think I will tackle presently is finishes and edges. On the Edge-Kote...from what I hear/read it is 1: Water based (which makes me wonder how moisture resistant it is) and 2: It has been referred to as a little more than white carpenter's glue thinned down. So anyone have any other suggestions, beefs, ideas, etc as to making the edged less "rough"? As it is I wet "burnish" then on a worn belt on my belt grinder but that isn't the nice "finished" look I see on say GOOD leather luggage, purses..etc.. That is the look I am going for.

As far as the non edge surface goes..what choices do I have that will give a nice sheen (not really glossy but more like semi-glossy) that is water resistant? I have tried that Tandy stuff and well..it didn't work very well for me..maybe I did something wrong or what..but it didn't work that great. Right now I am using a mixture of beeswax and Ballistol, applied hot, "baked in" and then buffed by hand...gives the leather a nice finish but not all that shiney (sure smells nice..like licorice honey...)

So any suggestions??? Ideas??

Thank you kindly..

JPH

[Art]

Hi Dr. H.,

It is fairly easy to get a good edge.

1. Even edge (if multiple layers) with head knife, Scalpel, or belt grinder, try not to burn the edge with the grinder or at least burn evenly (try that some time).

2. Edge the piece, I use Ron Edmonds edgers but others will work.

3. Dye the piece, and yes, do dye the edge. I use Fiebing's pro dyes (spirit dyes) diluted somewhat (about 33% with denatured ethyl alcohol). I immerse, sort of, or if I don't have enough to immerse, I rub and splash all over with a sponge wrapped in a tee shirt, best dauber I ever used, but glove up. For black I use drum dyed from Hermann Oak, but whatever it is make sure it is struck all the way through.

4. After the dye has dried (overnight in the furnace room, sometimes longer, but for you in Vegas probably just overnight) I rub the piece down vigorously with a clean tee shirt to get the excess dye off.

5. Now I take water and wet the edge with my finger, not soaked just wet. I do a small section, 6" or so, at a time, and then rub the edge with an elk antler tip. I also use cocobolo tools and or a hard felt or leather wheel (run slow <= 1750 for 3 or 4 inch wheel). I use beeswax when I use the wheels as they can get the edge hot enough to take the wax, but for the most part I gravitate to the antler tips. You can work up a remarkably slick and shiny edge with just the smooth antler.

6. I finish the whole piece with Fiebing's Bag Kote, Tan Kote, Pecard's, and or Gum Tragacanth depending on what I am trying to accomplish.

7. I will be trying a new edge system by Ron Edmonds and will let you know how that works, probably about the same as water. The simple stuff usually works best.

Art

Howdy!

Ok it's the PITA again...with yet another question..

I firgure I will tackle this leather working dilemma one step at a time..get one propblem solved and then move on to the others in turn..

OK I know how to make a OK but "rustic" (and how!!) looking sheath using welt construction and the single seam up the back.ones.. What I think I will tackle presently is finishes and edges. On the Edge-Kote...from what I hear/read it is 1: Water based (which makes me wonder how moisture resistant it is) and 2: It has been referred to as a little more than white carpenter's glue thinned down. So anyone have any other suggestions, beefs, ideas, etc as to making the edged less "rough"? As it is I wet "burnish" then on a worn belt on my belt grinder but that isn't the nice "finished" look I see on say GOOD leather luggage, purses..etc.. That is the look I am going for.

As far as the non edge surface goes..what choices do I have that will give a nice sheen (not really glossy but more like semi-glossy) that is water resistant? I have tried that Tandy stuff and well..it didn't work very well for me..maybe I did something wrong or what..but it didn't work that great. Right now I am using a mixture of beeswax and Ballistol, applied hot, "baked in" and then buffed by hand...gives the leather a nice finish but not all that shiney (sure smells nice..like licorice honey...)

So any suggestions??? Ideas??

Thank you kindly..

JPH

[JPH]

Art:

Ok....

Here's what I am doing to give you an idea as to what is happening..

I make the sheah..I glue it up..smooth everything even on my grinders...burnich the edges on a dull belt then sew everything on my Tippman...After it is sewed all together it's dyed. I mix my own annaline dyes (I use alcohol based dyestuffs) and I just "dunk" the whole thing in the gallon or so vat...Gets nice and even that way...

I let that dry usually overnight, buff off the "dust" then seal, rubb if off again and it's done...

I want something that will make for a "smoother" and "sealed" edge...sorta like on a pair of boots??

Now I have another stupid question...what's an edger?? What does it do??

Ok I admit I am not a leatherworker..I am a blacksmith...I do OK with metals..but leather is all new to me really...

JPH

[Art]

Hi Jim,

Before you dye, you edge. You use a tool called an "edger" to round over the leather as it transitions from the face (or back) of the piece to the edge. Sand or smooth before you edge, do not burnish, then edge, then dye. You must edge to get the grain of the leather back from the edge as it will bugger up if right on the edge. After dyeing the edge will be well shaped but a little fuzzy, it will also be dyed. At this point you get out the water and burnish the wet edge with the slicker, antler tine, wheel, piece of canvas, or whatever. This burnishing will give you the edge you desire, the longer you work at it, the slicker and shinier it will get, add more water if needed. Now you can finish the edge with any number of topcoats including edge paint which is usually a water based acrylic which is fairly waterproof when dry. Some folks use the edge paint on unburnished edges and then buff in beeswax on a hard felt (wool only, no synthetics they will melt) or another hard type wheel like leather (put a groove in them and run the waxed leather in the waxed groove in the wheel). This will give you the commercial painted edge you often see (however it isn't period to anything but the late 20th century). Sometimes you need to paint the edge with two coats. Everyone does this differently, this is not the only way, just mine.

Art

Art:

Ok....

Here's what I am doing to give you an idea as to what is happening..

I make the sheah..I glue it up..smooth everything even on my grinders...burnich the edges on a dull belt then sew everything on my Tippman...After it is sewed all together it's dyed. I mix my own annaline dyes (I use alcohol based dyestuffs) and I just "dunk" the whole thing in the gallon or so vat...Gets nice and even that way...

I let that dry usually overnight, buff off the "dust" then seal, rubb if off again and it's done...

I want something that will make for a "smoother" and "sealed" edge...sorta like on a pair of boots??

Now I have another stupid question...what's an edger?? What does it do??

Ok I admit I am not a leatherworker..I am a blacksmith...I do OK with metals..but leather is all new to me really...

JPH

[JPH]

Art:

Ok on the edger..how thick of a piece will these things handle?? I mean some of the sheath edges are about 5/8" to 3/4" thick...

JPH

[Mike Phelps]

I'm sure there are edgers at there that will handle that but I just take my #5 craftool edger and make several passes, high, low and in between until it is reasonable then dye, ink if I'm going that route then when dry apply,water, gum targ, there ain't no best way just what works best for you, sometimes and this is getting to be my favorite of late, just warm up the edge with a hair dryer hit with the beeswax and go to work with the burnishers, my round nylon slicker that chucks up in a drill won't do edges that wide without putting ruts in it[not good, been there], until and this takes a lot of hard and fast elbow grease, the I get all the edges to close up, fill until you get it looking smooth. If you've got a gouge in the welt or on the inside edge that won't smooth up after hitting it with the sandpapers, edgers and stuff during prep for edge treatment you can mix up some leather dust with a drop of Leather Weld cement and fill then blend it in with sandpaper when dry, it's got to be a pretty dry mix or the glue won't take the dye or other treatment well and be a slightly lighter color, but it's better than a ugly nick.

[Art]

Jim,

You do each edge (top and bottom) in a separate pass. Tool is held around a 45 degree angle and with a good edger like Ron's will round the edge over not just skive a 45 degree cut. Ron makes edgers from size 1 to 8, but there is no law against making multiple passes to accomplish something. The radius of the tool increases with the number. If you need something bigger you will need a saddle horn trimmer from Ron, but they are only good on straight stuff and outside curves, they're too big for anything but the most gradual of inside curves.

http://www.ronstools.com

If this isn't making and sense I can maybe do some tutorial this weekend, let me know

Art

Art:

Ok on the edger..how thick of a piece will these things handle?? I mean some of the sheath edges are about 5/8" to 3/4" thick...

JPH

[DANE]

JPH, I made a sanding/edging machine inspired by John Bianchi the famous holster maker who started off making police gear and now specializes in western holsters and belts through his company Frontier Gunleather. A few years back he put out a set of videos on making western holsters. I'm sure they are available on DVD and are well worth the money. The machine has a 1/3 hp motor (1725 rpm) and drives a double ended spindle using a belt. One end has a light grit 1 1/4" sanding barrel and the other a 100% wool edging wheel. As stated in prior posts, synthetic material melts. I made the wheel by cutting out numerous 2" wool material rounds and sewing them together until about 1 1/2" thick. I punched a hole through the center using a leather hole punch then mounted it on the spindle. I made two edging grooves in the wheel by turning on the electric motor then pressing appropriate sized waxed wooden dowels against the wheel over and over while adding more wax. I only use a 50/50 mixture of household paraffin and bees wax. One groove for single layer 9-10 oz leather and the otther for double/triple layer. I use the sanding barrel to smooth and even out holster edges. It also helps fine tune the curves of the holster. I trim off the sharp edges using a standard edging tool. I then dye the entire holster. I want the edge and faces to have the same shades of dye. I apply two coats of Fiebing's Edge Kote. Apply a heavy layer of wax along the edge and rewax the wool edging wheel as it spins. Make sure to wear an apron and face shield as small bits of hot wax tend to fly off. Start edging the piece on the wheel applying enough pressure to get the wax to melt and fill the leather pores and gaps but not enough to burn. I usually rewax and edge a holster 3 or 4 times until I get the desired look. I have an edge finishing tool I made from a Phillip's screwdriver by grinding and smoothing off the tip. I heat it over an electric stove element (gas flame leaves black residue) then touch up the edges as needed. I finish off with a wool pad. For the face I like to use a few coats of Kiwi neutral shoe polish but heavy buffing between coats. This has worked well for me and I have received lots of compliments on my edging. I thin k it gives a very professional look. Good luck with your projects

[JPH]

Hello:

Ok..let me make sure I get this straight... I edge BEFORE I sew or AFTER? Like I said I glue everything up..and on the welt sheaths I then smooth it all nice and even on a belt grinder, then I run them through my Tippman to sew them up..

So it's round the edges and get those selaed and burnished before I sew??

I know this is really a square nut question but I really don't know... I will be doing a few sheaths this weekend and I would like to give these suggestions a go...Once I get the edge problem licked I will be thinking about finish...I am OK dye wise I think.

Oh..you ever mix any of your own dyes??

JPH

[Art]

Hi Jim,

Glue up and sew, then even up and smooth (on sander) BEFORE edging, then dye, then burnish and slick, then finish. I will check leatherworker.net often this weekend if you need help.

I have made dyes for period work (walnut hulls etc) but for the most part use Fiebing's Pro Oil Dyes (spirit dye) cut with DEA. You can mix the Pro dyes to get different shades.

Art

Hello:

Ok..let me make sure I get this straight... I edge BEFORE I sew or AFTER? Like I said I glue everything up..and on the welt sheaths I then smooth it all nice and even on a belt grinder, then I run them through my Tippman to sew them up..

So it's round the edges and get those selaed and burnished before I sew??

I know this is really a square nut question but I really don't know... I will be doing a few sheaths this weekend and I would like to give these suggestions a go...Once I get the edge problem licked I will be thinking about finish...I am OK dye wise I think.

Oh..you ever mix any of your own dyes??

JPH