A Strange Groover Question - Is this ok?

[LzCraft]

I've seen many discussing stitch groovers and if they should or shouldn't be used, including on this forum. But none of the threads really give me an answer to when this would be of concern.

Currently, when I make cartridge belts (even if I only made 3) I use a groover for everything. My groover is sharpened a bit differently so that it cuts a shallower groove than most off the shelf groovers. I then use a modeling tool to burnish in the groove to make it deeper. This is the method I find gives the most crisp looking results.

If my workpiece is over 7-8 oz, I use this type of burnished groove for decorative lines too as I find it looks cleaner than a creased line. Lined belts, as I've mentioned in another thread, can be made two ways. The ones I have made are fully stitched through to hold the loops. I groove a zigzag pattern on the back of it to protect the thread holding the loops.

This is where my first question comes up. Is this a bad idea? Since the grooves go across the belt and not along it, I'm thinking this could cause a possible weakspot. Note that the grooves do not go fully across the back, only where the loop stitches sit. With the liner in place, the workpiece corresponds to 15-16 oz leather.

My second concern is regarding holsters. A holster is folded and naturally wants to spring outwards. I groove both sides for the stitch, both on belts and holsters. This is where I'm concerned a second weakpoint might form as the grooves, both for stitches and decorations, go across the tension and not along it. The holsters I make are heavy Mexican double loop holsters made of 10-11 oz leather. The holsters are not lined.

As a reenactor I need to be able to walk around a lot without wearing out the stitches, which is why I prefer to groove both sides.

 

Long story short, In terms of aesthetics, I am much happier with burnished grooves for both stitches and decoration than I am with creases, Especially the way they darken when dye is applied, which creases do not. But am I playing a risky game or am I good to go?

 

 

 

[TomE]

I think using a stitch groover is more about aesthetics than preventing wear.  I would be interested in people's experiences with stitches breaking because of abrasion.  I've only seen it happen on the toes of my work boots when they are well worn.  For horse tack it is usually the leather that breaks, not the stitches.   As a corollary, I don't see that machine stitching unravels and is somehow inferior to hand sewing, but I digress.  I don't use a stitch groover for sewing because I'd rather not remove the grain, the strongest part of the leather.  I do use a heated crease fairly often, but mainly for decorating straps that aren't sewn except at the ends for attaching hardware.  To answer your question, if you like the look of stitches in a groove I'd keep doing it.  I think the quality of tannage and weight of the leather will determine the durability.      

Edited June 9, 2023 by TomE

[bruce johnson]

I've got a few reasons I groove.

Yes, I've worn stitching out on belts even when it was grooved. Worn stitching on saddles. Worn stitching on bit loop ends of headstalls. Repaired a fair amount of worn stitches grooved and not., but grooved will last longer. I was in the shop of one of the finer saddlemakers there is in the country a month ago. You know what impressed my wife the most? It wasn't the carving, the construction, edges or anything else. It was how deep and cleanly he grooved his stitches. Details and function matter. Obviously your mileage may vary. For the "it weakens the leather argument" here is a simple test. It came up in a class I took probably 30 years ago. Groove a piece. Take that thready piece you grooved off and pull it apart. That has strength and is going to hold your leather together? Recessing your stitches has to be better for them than sitting proud on the leather surface. Its easier for me to groove than crease but creasing works. On some real show pieces I grooved and then ran a "patent leather countersink" tool over the groove to define the channel even more and burnish the shoulders. They haven't made that tool commercially for close to a hundred years, but handy to have if you find one. 

    The other reason to groove is that is makes a target for stitching. I hate wavy meandering stitch lines. Sometimes it happens but a lot less when you groove and have a target. I've had machines with and without edge guides. I still soft eye sight the needle and the stitching groove to keep my lines straight even with a guide. As natural as gun sights when you do it enough.  When I was handsewing I grooved front and back. I checked that backside to make sure my awl was coming through in the groove. You might have some stitch length difference on the back side learning your stroke with the awl, but slight differences in stitch length aren't as obvious as a wavy line.