Randy Cornelius Report post Posted February 14, 2008 I thought I would post a picture of this Old Haney saddle that came in for repair. It is stamped "Hamleys Company Pendleton Oregon. On the back on the cantle is the Initials "D.C.S." Under the intitials is E203 Special E798 I presume these are the model numbers and the special indicates that the customer ordered it with his initials tooled in the back of the cantle. The saddle is flower stamped with a small flower tool about the size of a quarter all over the saddle. I really like this one and wish I had taken a picture of it before I started the work. The saddle was in really good shape and taken care of for the shape it was in. I fould a picture of a simular saddle in an old Hamley Cataloge dated 1940, so I presume it was made before the war. The tree was in very good condition, all the rawhide tight with no signs of pulling apart at the laces. Just thought you might enjoy seeing this good old saddle. It would be nice to know who the orginal owner was that had his initials carved in the cantle, but that info is most likely long lost. Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Randy, Call up Hamley's. They have the records. Not sure if they still do, but they used to have a place on the website to look a saddle up by the numbers. Last year I bought a Hamley association saddle hull from "fleabitpokey" on the forum here. When she brought it down to me, she had done the homework. They had sent her a copy of the original order form, the receipt when done, and a certificate of authenticity. It was from the late 20s. Pretty cool. Eventually I am going to retore it for the museum display. We don't have one from Hamley's on display. Yeah, the trees in some of these old ones are good. The one in my Hamley looks good, as does my great-grandfather's Duhamel saddle, and an old Porter I have. I am restoring an old Rowell right now that doesn't have half as good a tree as any of those. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Cornelius Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Cool! I had no idea they were still in business, I sent them and email querry asking for history on the saddle. Thanks again Bruce. Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Cornelius Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Bruce, I sent Hamley an email just after I got your post on this. I got a phone call from a very nice lady from Hamley Co named Margret just a few minutes ago. She was so nice to look this up and call me. Here is what I found out about the saddle. It was made on Aug, 18, 1936 by a saddle maker working for Hamley named Henry Donis It sold new for $82.50 3/4 rigging, 14" seat and 14" swell The stamp used was a # 580 It has a triangle tree, she did not know what that ment, if it was the tree maker or what. It was a special order by a man named Allen Fquakin of Chopaku, Washington I just love finding out the history of these old saddles, this just made my day! If anyone knows anything about the stamp used # 580 please let me know. Thanks again Bruce, Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Craw Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Wow, we've gotten saddles in that were made in 1996 that only looked like they were made in '36. That thing is beautiful! Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Cornelius Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Wow, we've gotten saddles in that were made in 1996 that only looked like they were made in '36. That thing is beautiful!Mike I just do good work, LOL should have seen it when I started LOL ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike Craw Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Hey, how about a "Before and After" on restoration jobs? If any of us really brings one back from the dead, we can post them, assuming we remembered to take a "Before"... Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Cornelius Report post Posted February 14, 2008 That's my trouble, they look so bad when they come in you don't think you will ever get them looking good again so I don't take a before picture. Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveh Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Bruce, I sent Hamley an email just after I got your post on this. I got a phone call from a very nice lady from Hamley Co named Margret just a few minutes ago. She was so nice to look this up and call me. Here is what I found out about the saddle.It was made on Aug, 18, 1936 by a saddle maker working for Hamley named Henry Donis It sold new for $82.50 3/4 rigging, 14" seat and 14" swell The stamp used was a # 580 It has a triangle tree, she did not know what that ment, if it was the tree maker or what. It was a special order by a man named Allen Fquakin of Chopaku, Washington I just love finding out the history of these old saddles, this just made my day! If anyone knows anything about the stamp used # 580 please let me know. Thanks again Bruce, Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ronny Report post Posted February 14, 2008 That's my trouble, they look so bad when they come in you don't think you will ever get them looking good again so I don't take a before picture.Randy Randy, I can't tell from the pictures but Hamley used to use a flower stamp they called a Daisy May. It was popular about that time period. I have an old Hamley catalogue that shows it. I bought a Hamley low model B Form Fitter that Duffy Severe built when he worked there that had the traditional, Daisy May stamp. Ronny Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveh Report post Posted February 14, 2008 Randy, Reguarding that #580 stamp. I looked in my Mcmillen Saddle stamp catalog which I believe was in bussiness in KC Missouri in 1936. The 580 stamp is a spade, but the #560 looks very similiar to what I can see on your saddle, a very geometric 25 petal flower 5/8 " diameter, with about 1/8 inch center. It may be that they miss read 6 as an 8 ? Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Cornelius Report post Posted February 15, 2008 I bet I will never find one of those. It would be a good project to try to build a new one just like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruce johnson Report post Posted February 15, 2008 Randy, I have an old Hamley catalog reprint along with shreds of a real one, and saddle E203 is the Daisy Mae, as Ronny said. The picture they show in the catalog has a 12 or 13 petal flower used. I am sure they could have used whatever flower a customer wanted. They also show other saddle models with 7 petaled flowers in that pattern, and a five petal with the squarish tips. That "daisy basket" pattern was pretty commonly used back then by several makers. I would suspect from the numbering that it is an old McMillen stamp too. The border stamp sure likes a commonly used McMillen pattern (want to say a #328). I have a couple old stamps that were reported to be McMillens and matched up to catalog impressions, but no numbers. Not sure if any McMillen stamps were ever numbered themselves. Regarding the "triangle" tree. At least in the 1942 reprint, Hamley's still had their own tree shop. Someone with more knowledge than me knows, but I am recalling that Duff Severe went to work for the saddle shop and his brother went to work in the tree shop after the war. The catalog shows the E203 as being built on the Improved Association tree. But they have a saddle model called the New "Triangle". It was model #580X. The Firefly, was model F616 and was built on the "regular triangle tree". These trees both had the fork of the low form-fitter with a 14" swell. The difference between these two "triangle" models was the cantle dish and slope. The picture of yours looks to me all in the world like their Association. The triangle saddles pictured have the typical undercut swells and backsweep of their form-fitter swells, and welted swell covers. Some of the improved Assoc models they show were welted, and some weren't. It would take someone better than me to do a swell cover on a form-fitter and not welt it. Doesn't look like yours is welted. I'll bet you breakfast yours is an Improved Association tree. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Randy Cornelius Report post Posted February 15, 2008 Bruce you are right as ususl, one of the numbers on the back of the cantle that I gave them was the number E203. It looks to be an association tree and no the swells are not welted. Someone took a lot of time to form thoses swells. The saddle went back to it's owner last night and he was pleased with my work on the saddle as well as the home work I done on the history. Randy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skip Report post Posted February 15, 2008 very informative and interesting post, I really like seeing the old Hamley's there is a lot of history in leather and saddle work that the Hamley's new store is trying to keep up. I greatly appreciate seeing nice work and the fact that Randy got the history for the owner, that is going the extra mile for his customers. I am sure the owner didn't mind paying his bill no matter what it was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gtwister09 Report post Posted February 15, 2008 Randy, If none of the McMillen stamps match the saddle you could take some detailed pictures and possibly do a clay form to have someone create one for you. Just a thought. Regards, Ben Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveh Report post Posted February 16, 2008 Randy, McMillen tool is still in bussiness,the #560 stamp can be made. There phone Number 573-374-7880 Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
