Purposes of leather pieces on skirt with fleece

[Mdolfan]

Would someone kindly explain the purpose of the leather pieces sewn under the fleece onto the leather of the skirting.  I’m taking a saddle apart for the first time to refleece it and am curious about what purpose these serve.  The only thing I can think of is they provide extra support for the skirt leather where it can rub the most (through the fleece) on the horse’s body.  Thanks!

Edited July 4, 2024 by Mdolfan

[bruce johnson]

They are called plugs or sometimes scabs. They help to stiffen the edge of the skirts to prevent curling and to spread edge pressure depending on rigging style. They also help to soften the transition from the bar edges to the skirts depending on how the skirts are blocked. Some saddles have the skirts plugged right up the bar edge and skived to blend that transition. Others have a 2 or 3 inch wide plug just for the skirt edges. 

[Mdolfan]

Thank you, Bruce.  That’s really helpful information.  I appreciate your response. 

[Mdolfan]

Is there a reason why someone would have knotted off each individual stitch?  The first part where I was removing the plugs was easy to get the stitches out.  I’m now having to cut each individual stitch because it’s knotted.  

[MasonLikesLeather]

So, I don't know much about Leatherworking, because I am very new to it, but I still wanted to be helpful. So, I used ChatGPT to at least try to answer your question.

 

You’re on the right track with your thinking! The leather pieces sewn under the fleece onto the leather of the skirting serve several purposes:

1. Support and Reinforcement: These leather pieces provide additional support and reinforcement to the skirting leather, which helps prevent stretching and distortion over time. This is particularly important in areas that experience significant stress and wear.

2. Protection: The extra leather layers help protect the skirting leather from the abrasive action of the horse's movement. By absorbing some of the friction and pressure, they help extend the lifespan of both the fleece and the skirting leather.

3. Shape Maintenance: They help maintain the shape and structure of the saddle skirt. The additional thickness and stiffness provided by these pieces help the skirt retain its form and fit better against the horse’s body.

4. Distribution of Pressure: The added layers help distribute the pressure more evenly across the horse’s back, enhancing the saddle's comfort and reducing the risk of pressure points that can cause soreness or injury to the horse.

5. Durability: By reinforcing the areas that are most prone to wear and tear, these leather pieces contribute to the overall durability and longevity of the saddle.

By understanding these purposes, you can better appreciate the importance of these components in the construction and functionality of the saddle. Good luck with your refleeing project!

 

Sorry if none of this helps.

[Mdolfan]

Thanks!  I’ve never used ChatGPT before.  Will have to look into it.  

[bruce johnson]

6 hours ago, Mdolfan said:

Is there a reason why someone would have knotted off each individual stitch?  The first part where I was removing the plugs was easy to get the stitches out.  I’m now having to cut each individual stitch because it’s knotted.  

Yeah,  picking stitches is no fun. There is a tool that minimzes picking on most saddles but you are past that point once the stitches are cut like these. 

Two things could be going on.

1).Most of these old saddles were sewn on needle and awl machines and the thread was hotwaxed - those machines had wax pots with heaters to melt the wax. Once that wax cooled it got hard and basically helped bind the lockstitch in place deep in the leather. 

2). If it was hand sewn then yes, some saddle makers throw a half overhand in each stitch. Basically take a full wrap around the opposing front needle before you pull it through. Combine some sticky hand sewing wax/rosin mix on natural thread and it locks the thread like hotwax. 

Curiosity - how are you planning to resew the skirts? 

 

[MasonLikesLeather]

5 hours ago, Mdolfan said:

Thanks!  I’ve never used ChatGPT before.  Will have to look into it.  

Yeah!

[Mdolfan]

On 7/4/2024 at 7:02 PM, bruce johnson said:

Yeah,  picking stitches is no fun. There is a tool that minimzes picking on most saddles but you are past that point once the stitches are cut like these. 

Two things could be going on.

1).Most of these old saddles were sewn on needle and awl machines and the thread was hotwaxed - those machines had wax pots with heaters to melt the wax. Once that wax cooled it got hard and basically helped bind the lockstitch in place deep in the leather. 

2). If it was hand sewn then yes, some saddle makers throw a half overhand in each stitch. Basically take a full wrap around the opposing front needle before you pull it through. Combine some sticky hand sewing wax/rosin mix on natural thread and it locks the thread like hotwax. 

Curiosity - how are you planning to resew the skirts? 

 

Bruce, I’ve not decided how to stitch the skirts yet.  Is there a benefit to using two needles rather than using only one?   The one skirt is ready, hopefully I’ll be able to make progress on the other tomorrow.  It’s been a little slow going.  

Love the information about the stitching!  

Now I have to figure out which is the head end of the sheepskin and which is the butt end.  
 

apologies for taking so long to reply. 

[Mdolfan]

Figured it out, cut the fleece after reading about which direction to go and placement, glued it, and am now punching the holes into the fleece.  Now I need to learn how to do saddle stitch.  Starting to feel pretty fantastic about this!  

[Mdolfan]

So now I know I’ll be too old to ride by the time I’m done hand stitching the skirts.  On the other hand, I like saddle stitch.  Fleece?  Not so much!  Any tips for keeping the fleece out of your way when you stitch?  I conditioned the thread with paper as I read on here to do. 

[TomE]

11 minutes ago, Mdolfan said:

So now I know I’ll be too old to ride by the time I’m done hand stitching the skirts.  On the other hand, I like saddle stitch.  Fleece?  Not so much!  Any tips for keeping the fleece out of your way when you stitch?  I conditioned the thread with paper as I read on here to do. 

I feel your pain.  Just finished hand sewing a shearling liner on a surcingle, and didn't figure enough labor for the sewing.  I normally just pass the waxed thread through my fingers to burnish the wax, but that was a total fail for shearling.  Clumps of wool pulled through the stitch holes.  Burnishing with brown paper did the trick, even for cobbler's sticky wax (beeswax + pine resin).  After that, I didn't have a problem with the wool getting in the way.  I inserted/twisted an awl to enlarge each hole,  put a needle through the front side and twirled it a little, and inserted the needle from the backside as I withdrew the needle from the front (feeling my way into the backside), then ran the needle through from the front side and pulled up the stitch.  Went pretty smoothly once I got the feel of finding the holes from the backside.  I was able to use a stitching horse for my project and that no doubt helps my consistency.

[Mdolfan]

I’ll have to try burnishing the thread a bit more.  I got a bit of shearling coming through the first few stitches.  Maybe it was just the first couple stitches that are an issue because I’ve not had so much of a problem with the other stitches.  I actually tried using a big dollar store bag clip, the kind you use on snack bags, to hold one side (excess off the leather side) of the shearling down.  I think, too, using a metal dog comb and pushing it into the other side of the fleece will help keep a clearer path for the needles.  But I have to try that as I didn’t have the dog comb when I was at Tandy Leather learning how to saddle stitch.  There might be other hair products designed for keeping hair in a bun that might work too.  I’m going to go look tomorrow and see if I find anything.  And man, I wish I had a stitching horse!  Just don’t feel like building one for one saddle.  Wonder if I could try 2x4 pieces and C-clamps and just lay the 2x4 pieces on my legs.  It would give some support to the piece.  
 

I admire you guys who do this for a living!