Making an authentic sword scabbard

[fishguy]

My advice is to listen to Chuck

Water or wax hardening, or even some combination sound likely in the original. The wax would have added waterproofing and could be buffed up nicely. Modern sheath makers often have hot dip concoctions formulated from beeswax, pine resin and various other materials that they dip the finished sheaths into to make them rigid and waterproof.

I would say that the scabbard was almost certainly stitched up on some sort of form, probably wood. I suspect that it may have even been stitched up on a straight form, then wetted and put onto a curved form (much easier fabrication that way) with proper boning and smoothing, no wrinkles would be visible.

As for the stitches, if you make a groove on each side for the emergent loops to lie in it will smooth it out quite a bit. You will also need to use pretty thin thread. I use a butt stitch on quivers and it lies down quite nicely (of course that is more like 3-5 mm leather too). Going down the seam with a shoemaker's hammer while the leather is damp and the form is still in place would probably make them lie down pretty well too.

As for the fittings, why not fit them while the leather is still damp and pliable?

[UKRay]

My advice is to listen to Chuck

Water or wax hardening, or even some combination sound likely in the original. The wax would have added waterproofing and could be buffed up nicely. Modern sheath makers often have hot dip concoctions formulated from beeswax, pine resin and various other materials that they dip the finished sheaths into to make them rigid and waterproof.

I would say that the scabbard was almost certainly stitched up on some sort of form, probably wood. I suspect that it may have even been stitched up on a straight form, then wetted and put onto a curved form (much easier fabrication that way) with proper boning and smoothing, no wrinkles would be visible.

As for the stitches, if you make a groove on each side for the emergent loops to lie in it will smooth it out quite a bit. You will also need to use pretty thin thread. I use a butt stitch on quivers and it lies down quite nicely (of course that is more like 3-5 mm leather too). Going down the seam with a shoemaker's hammer while the leather is damp and the form is still in place would probably make them lie down pretty well too.

As for the fittings, why not fit them while the leather is still damp and pliable?

All really helpful ideas, fishguy, especially about the sheath maker's dip.

I'm not quite sure how the curved form comes into it as this is a straight Naval sword not a cutlass. Do you mean a former to open out the 'tube'? Sorry, but I haven't understood.

Like you, I usually make a groove or sometimes a slit for 'invisible' work for the stitches to lie in but this leather is around 2mm thick so you can't take it too deep without affecting the strength of the work. Tapping the seams flat is just how I was taught (I think I referred to it as pounding earlier but this was simply a figure of speech) , but maybe Chuck knows a different way. I can see that boning would do a similar job if you spend enough time and energy at it - I tend to prefer the leisurely approach! LOL

One thing that has just occured to me is that old style leather was often less supple than modern leather - maybe it was inherently stiffer? Anyone got any thoughts on that?

I'm really looking forward to what Chuck has to say as his work is legendary, even over here in the UK.

BTW: I am inclined to slide the fittings on whilst the leather is wet too (I have done one or two of these before) but Chuck gave a specific sequence of events in his post and I am keen to hear how he works.

[fishguy]

All really helpful ideas, fishguy, especially about the sheath maker's dip.

I'm not quite sure how the curved form comes into it as this is a straight Naval sword not a cutlass. Do you mean a former to open out the 'tube'? Sorry, but I haven't understood.

Like you, I usually make a groove or sometimes a slit for 'invisible' work for the stitches to lie in but this leather is around 2mm thick so you can't take it too deep without affecting the strength of the work. Tapping the seams flat is just how I was taught (I think I referred to it as pounding earlier but this was simply a figure of speech) , but maybe Chuck knows a different way. I can see that boning would do a similar job if you spend enough time and energy at it - I tend to prefer the leisurely approach! LOL

One thing that has just occured to me is that old style leather was often less supple than modern leather - maybe it was inherently stiffer? Anyone got any thoughts on that?

I'm really looking forward to what Chuck has to say as his work is legendary, even over here in the UK.

BTW: I am inclined to slide the fittings on whilst the leather is wet too (I have done one or two of these before) but Chuck gave a specific sequence of events in his post and I am keen to hear how he works.

I had visualized a curved sword like a saber. Go with Chuck, he is the man!

[ChuckBurrows]

I'm on the run so only have a moment -

1) My sequence does not have to be specific per se - adapt as needed

2) Ray can you post a pic of the fittings by chance - while some fittings look to be all of one piece many were "squeezed" shut after attaching although they look as if of one piece.

3) Part of my info come from a bit later period - how bayonet scabbards were made in the late 18th/early 19th centuries, but researching backwards there were enough hints to show it was the same basic procedures from about the late 15th century on (most medieval period and earlier scabbards were leather covered wood). With bayonet scabbards they were formed over metal........

One thing that has just occured to me is that old style leather was often less supple than modern leather - maybe it was inherently stiffer?

This is a distinct possibility and may in fact be that they used so-called half-tanned leather which in and of itself dries hard without "boiling".

more later got to run........

Edited January 28, 2009 by ChuckBurrows

[UKRay]

Chuck - and all,

I had a feeling the sequence thing wasn't going to work in this instance. I finished the job by fitting the metalwork onto wet leather and shaping the leather around the metal to keep it in place. Unfortunately I completed and returned the job to the client without photographing the fittings (I have been so busy I completely forgot to do it until it was too late...) but you were quite right, the central supporting ring was split and squeezed into place after the job was completed. It was then painted over with a varnish-like substance to cover the join. I didn't even think to look for a split as I was convinced it was a solid piece of metal. Thanks for that one.

The leather I used was fairly standard veg tan. I split it down from 3.5mm thick to around 2mm thick and stitched up my butt jointed tube using concealed stitching (in other words stitched inside a knife cut) and then boned it down to hide the join. I like this type of join but it is a fair bit more work and, IMHO, the hammered butt joint is slightly more decorative. Personal preference I guess.

I accept that many old scabbards were covered wood but this scabbard wasn't. I stripped the original myself and it was simply a leather tube. I think the idea of half-cured leather is a good one and I'll try to find some half cured oak bark tanned leather for the next one to see if there is an appreciable difference.

I have tried the hot water process on a couple of offcuts and I'm now convinced that the correct tanning is part of the solution. In the end I simply ran very hot water, straight from the bath faucet, through the tube for a few minutes and, having slipped the fittings into place, moulded the scabbard using my long steel bars. Warning: If you plan on doing this, wash your dirty workshop hands thoroughly as dye stains on the bath mean I'm forbidden to play in the bathroom again...

I have identified a couple of 'specialist' tools and useful materials that may be useful if anyone plans on doing this kind of thing. Start out by getting several 3ft lengths of mild steel in different widths and appropriate thicknesses (I use 1/8th thick x 1/2" 3/4" and 1" wide steel) as you will need to form the scabbard around something and the sword is often too precious or fragile to risk, I made do with a set of steel loop sticks for a while but found the length issues irritated me - hence the investment in the long bits. Curved swords simply require a curved former so heat up your metal and give it an appropriate bend to match the original sword.

Invest in a few curved awls of different sizes and learn how to use them properly. You must be able to sew the full length of your scabbard without a single mistake or slip of the awl. Practise is the only way to learn. Mistakes look horrible and IMHO are not acceptable.

As I'm fortunate enoughto have a silversmithing bench in my workroom I am able to silver solder broken fittings and heat up small pieces of metal to straighten them. I use a Sieverts gas torch for most of my silver work but a relatively cheap, fine flame 'can type' gas torch is handy for difficult areas.

To make the job a lot easier try using silver paste flux rather than borax. This stuff comes in a hypodermic style syringe and you simply put a squirt on your job and heat it to make a perfect joint. Much easier than conventional methods although the joint isn't always as strong.

Invest in a bench anvil if you haven't already got one. make sure it has a nice pointed 'nose' as you may need to slip fittings over this to re-shape them.

Hope this helps.

[Go2Tex]

I ran across this thread doing a search for sword scabbards, as I recently had a project myself to replace the leather scabbard for a Civil War era sword. I ran into the same issue with the scabbard being too floppy and I too returned the finished job to the customer without taking photos. But I did manage to get some pics of the original scabbard, in pieces, with the brass fittings and the sword.

I found that the scabbard was not stitched, but simply lap skived and most likely glued and held in place by the fittings which had set screws, indicating that they were slid onto the leather, and not formed around it. The fittings were very smooth on the inside and made no marks on the leather, even after being finished.

The original leather was very hard and brittle, which of course was the reason for the replacement as old leather does get hard and brittle with age. It also cracks and falls apart, as this one did when trying to remove the fittings. So, it is hard to tell just how firm the original scabbard was when new but obviously it would need to hold it's shape upon withdrawing the sword, which presents the problem at hand;

....How to make it stiff enough without being too thick or brittle. The brass fitting at the tip of the sword was heavy and tended to cause the scabbard to droop quite noticeably with the sword removed.

My particular customer was not too concerned about the floppness as it was merely for display and a dowel placed inside would do the trick for her, as the sword would be displayed removed from the scabbard.

However, I was and still am concerned, as it just wasn't quite right. In reading this entire thread, I noticed a comment regarding the half tanned leather. As it just so happens, I just ran across a source of this very type of leather. The Clayton Leather Co, through their USA affiliate, Booth and Company Leather Traders USA lists a half tanned, rawhide center product. "Rawhide, a partly tanned leather with a raw streak in the centre for added strength, used for saddlery strap leathers."

http://www.claytonleather.com/saddlery.htm

So, whether or not this leather would be suitable for a leather scabbard is hard to say, but I suspect this would be worth checking out. The procedure of pouring very hot water, perhaps a mixture containing wax into the formed leather tube, or soaking it, and then drying under heat has even more appeal.

Another way of producing a rather rigid leather, though also quite brittle, as I found out when trying to bend it, was achieved by emersing the leather in baking soda and drying in the hot summer sun. It was quite dark as well and appeared burned, which I suspect it was.(it gets damn hot down here in south Texas). So, perhaps some trial and error could produce the amount of rigidity desired without being too brittle.