Looking for a used cylinder arm machine

[Doug C]

The Artisan guys probably have some more insight too. What machine are you running?

Bruce,

I am running a Artisan 4000 R but the sturrip plate is from Toledo Sewing Machines. Artisan has not had the sturrip plates available for sometime and finnally decided I would try this plate. It looks identical to the one Ed shows in the picture. I have the right and left pressure feet and that does not seem to make much difference. I know what you mean by keeping the peice level on the arm to keep the stitch line straight on the bottom. I fight that all the time. You almost need three or four hands to sew some gussets.

Doug

[bruce johnson]

Doug,

I would call the Artisan guys for their input. I am not sure of the hook clearances and bottom feed dogs and whatever in the 4000.

Actually thinking about this a little more, if you do get some needle deflection, then because the piece is raised up by the plate, it would magnify the amount of deflection at the hook and be more prone to missing. Also the thread may be binding in the groove and not looping like it should. I would try a new needle and make sure there is not more bevel on one side than the other that is causing it to deflect. Then check the looping with the same weight leather on a flat plate vs. the stirrup plate.

On my Adler when I first got it, it would sew great on soft leather and up to about 13 oz combined weights of veg tan. If it got heavier it would start to skip. The hook was just far enough from the needle that if I got any deflection in the heavier leather, it would occassionally miss. We ended up and shimmed the bobbin race out and brought the hook closer to the needle and eliminated the problem. I don't know about other Adlers but if mine skipped, it fed a kink into the thread and made it harder to loop on the next stitch and things went south in a hurry. Skip two and you were done.

[esantoro]

Doug,

I would call the Artisan guys for their input. I am not sure of the hook clearances and bottom feed dogs and whatever in the 4000.

Actually thinking about this a little more, if you do get some needle deflection, then because the piece is raised up by the plate, it would manify the amount of deflection at the hook and be more prone to missing. Also the thread may be binding in the groove and not looping like it should. I would try a new needle and make sure there is not more bevel on one side than the other that is causing it to deflect. Then check the looping with the same weight leather on a flat plate vs. the stirrup plate.

On my Adler when I first got it, it would sew great on soft leather and up to about 13 oz combined weights of veg tan. If it got heavier it would start to skip. The hook was just far enough from the needle that if I got any deflection in the heavier leather, it would occassionally miss. We ended up and shimmed the bobbin race out and brought the hook closer to the needle and eliminated the problem. I don't know about other Adlers but if mine skipped, it fed a kink into the thread and made it harder to loop on the next stitch and things went south in a hurry. Skip two and you were done.

I'd also like to try shimming the shuttle race so that all needles function more or less like a 230/26, which I think gives the best consistency. I started trying to cut out some shims from beer/soda cans, but never got very far. I'd much rather pay to get the next thicker size spacer ring for the 441 clones. in one manual somewhere, various thicknesses were available. I'm sure they are possible to get somewhere. I'll call Artisan.

If I remember, I'll try a 26 needle and a 25 needle with the stirrup plate and test for consistency. I bet the 26 needle will yield better results, due to thicker girth of needle which forms the loop closer to the hook and also resists deflection due to a heavier, thicker needle.

I think shimming is a serious consideration that hasn't been discussed much, especially if you are trying to make the 441 as versatile as possible.

Ed

[tonyc1]

Doug,

I would call the Artisan guys for their input. I am not sure of the hook clearances and bottom feed dogs and whatever in the 4000.

Actually thinking about this a little more, if you do get some needle deflection, then because the piece is raised up by the plate, it would magnify the amount of deflection at the hook and be more prone to missing. Also the thread may be binding in the groove and not looping like it should. I would try a new needle and make sure there is not more bevel on one side than the other that is causing it to deflect. Then check the looping with the same weight leather on a flat plate vs. the stirrup plate.

On my Adler when I first got it, it would sew great on soft leather and up to about 13 oz combined weights of veg tan. If it got heavier it would start to skip. The hook was just far enough from the needle that if I got any deflection in the heavier leather, it would occassionally miss. We ended up and shimmed the bobbin race out and brought the hook closer to the needle and eliminated the problem. I don't know about other Adlers but if mine skipped, it fed a kink into the thread and made it harder to loop on the next stitch and things went south in a hurry. Skip two and you were done.

Bruce, when I got my Adler it came with small black spacers that were numbered #160, #180, #200, #230 and #250. These are spacers for those needles. While I don't change them all the time for every size needle I use, I do if I swap from a #160 to a 230. I mostly use #200 and that seems to handle most jobs very well with no sewing problems.

Tony.

[bruce johnson]

Tony,

Thanks for the input. I sold the Adler a couple years ago. It was an Adler 205-64, and I am not sure if they could use the shims. I am pretty sure the 205-370 uses them. I pretty much set it up to run 346 or 277 thread and never went smaller with that machine. Once we got the race shimmed out, it never gave me much trouble other than breaking a needle now and again.

[tonyc1]

Tony,

Thanks for the input. I sold the Adler a couple years ago. It was an Adler 205-64, and I am not sure if they could use the shims. I am pretty sure the 205-370 uses them. I pretty much set it up to run 346 or 277 thread and never went smaller with that machine. Once we got the race shimmed out, it never gave me much trouble other than breaking a needle now and again.

The one I have is a 205-370 and has been a great machine for 11 years and apart from oil all I ever had to do is pump some grease into the reducer. I do wish it had a longer arm sometimes.

Tony.

[esantoro]

The one I have is a 205-370 and has been a great machine for 11 years and apart from oil all I ever had to do is pump some grease into the reducer. I do wish it had a longer arm sometimes.

Tony.

Tony,

How often do you pump grease into that reducer? I have never done this.

Ed

[tonyc1]

I give it a squirt about every 6 months. I never thought about it when I first got the machine and after a few months of use it developed a rumble which puzzled and worried me for a while 'til I finally discovered what it was and it was running dry!.

Tony.

[esantoro]

I give it a squirt about every 6 months. I never thought about it when I first got the machine and after a few months of use it developed a rumble which puzzled and worried me for a while 'til I finally discovered what it was and it was running dry!.

Tony.

I don't know why I was under the impression that maybe this was something I'd have to do once every five or so years, but I was. I think I've heard a similar rumbling.

What exactly is needed to pump grease in there?

Thanks,

Ed

[tonyc1]

A grease gun, Ed.