vinegroon??

[Tkleather1]

I keep hearing about this vinegaroon but I still dont totally get what the heck it is. If someone could take the time to go through this process of making and using this product I would greatly appreciate it. Why would you use this over black dye? what is the baking soda for ?

Please help as I dont get at all what this is for.

[tashabear]

Take something rusty. Put it in vinegar (white, cider, doesn't matter as long as it's not balsamic). Let it steep for several days.

Take a piece of undyed vegetable tan leather. Put it in the rust & vinegar mix. Watch in amazement as your leather turns black before your eyes. This is a result of the acids in the mix reacting with the tannins in the leather.

The acid needs to be neutralized to stop the reaction, and the easiest way to do that is in a baking soda solution, though some folks say rinsing in water will do the trick. After your piece is dry, you can oil it to deepen the color.

Does that help?

[Tkleather1]

that helps but I dont get why not jsut use dye?

and does it stink when you are done?

[TwinOaks]

Fresh vinegaroon does have a certain .....presence. At least until it dries thoroughly. My brew doesn't smell like much at all after if fully dries, but it's old.

You could use it in place of dye for a couple of reasons:

It's a chemical reaction in the leather. The leather is black, not colored black. Cutting it will yield more black leather.

The blackness of it doesn't rub off, and requires no buffing to remove excess particles.

It doesn't show scratches as badly.

Adding a touch of oil or conditioner restores the color.

When playing with W&C scraps, you can get some awesome blues instead of black.

[tashabear]

that helps but I dont get why not jsut use dye?

and does it stink when you are done?

The smell wears off, plus the neutralizing bath helps a lot.

As for why not use dye... I can make a gallon of vinegaroon for a couple of bucks. A gallon of dye costs around $50.

I can reasonably justify its use in historical reenactment.

And if cats or kids get into it, it's unlikely to kill them, nor will it stain if I spill it on the vinyl floor in the kitchen.

Edited March 24, 2009 by tashabear

[Bree]

Google the word "mordant". It is a substance that acts as a helper in a chemical reaction that creates a dye or stain.

Tannic acid in the leather as a result of the tanning process and ferric acetate formed when ferrous metal is placed into the weak acid solution of vinegar can both act as "mordants". In this case, if I am not mistaken, it is the tannic acid acting as a mordant for the ferric component of the ferric acetate that gives the leather its deep black color. It helps set insoluable iron into the fibers of the leather and thereby darkens it in a way that will not rub off since it is bonded very strongly within the leather to the leather fibers themselves.

You put steel wool or old nails or other ferrous metal into some vinegar and let it "brew". It forms ferric acetate. When you put leather into a solution of vinegaroon (ferric acetate), the tannic acid in the leather helps trigger the chemical reaction and sets the dye which is basically iron. Bottom line...the two chemicals interact in the leather and voila... black throughout the leather!!

I think that's how it works. The chemists can maybe explain it more precisely.

[Denster]

Here is what works for me. Your mileage may vary.

Making the vinegaroon.

Get one gallon of the cheap Wal-Mart vinegar. I like it because it is cheap and has a pop off cap in case I forget to bleed off the gases.

5 pads of OOOO steel wool. Any steel wool will work the finer stuff just dissolves quicker.

Degrease the steel wool. I use simple green full strength and then rinse the wool. Forget about rust it doesn't add anything to the mix. Tear the wool into strips and stuff it in the vinegar cap and put away for three or four weeks untill the wool is all dissolved then strain through a coffee filter or whatever into another jug. Your "roon" is now ready for use. Actually you can use it after a week or two but it works better after a month.

To use dip your leather into the roon for thirty seconds or so and set aside for ten or fifteen minutes. The baking soda rinse may or may not be necessasary. I use this for holsters so I do it and it does get rid of most of the smell. Let dry and use as normal. The color will vary with the leather and the amount of tannins in it. The reaction is between the ferric acetate and the tannins. You will have from a medium blue to a deep navy. When the finished product is oiled with neetsfoot it will go jet black.

You can also wipe the roon onto leather with the same effect just not as deep penetration. I dip because I color pee assembly and want the color all the way through so I don't have to re-do when I edge or cut grooves.

Why use instead of dye. Cheaper, easier, more even, will not transfere to clothing, did I mention cheap.

That's all there is to it. Hope this helps.

[TwinOaks]

Don't forget that it's cheap Denster.

If you have a piece of leather that just doesn't wanna turn black, you can give it some extra tannins with black tea. Nope, I don't know what'd happen if you dropped tea leaves in the brew. I haven't tried it.........................................yet.

[Denster]

Twin Oaks. Thanks for mentioning that about adding tannins with the tea. That is sometimes necessary. As to adding tea leaves to the roon. I think I'll let you do that experiment. Give it a whirl take a few sips and report back to us:)

[Tkleather1]

Wow that was very informative but I do have one more question. Could you use a wool dauber to "roon" just the edge of a peice or will it seem too far into the leather?

Sorry for the silly questions I have never tried any of this "witches brew"