Knife Drag

[jiml]

I really need some help here! I am just starting to tool leather. I've done some repairs and such in the past, but have never really tried my hand at much more. I have poured over these forums and read most of the posts on casing and carving leather. From what I understand everybody carves the leather while it is damp. Everytime I try I leave terrible drag marks!! I know that my knife needs to be sharper, but if I carve on dry leather it actually carves pretty decent. I can't help but think I am missing something. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!! I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this site, you are all great!

[Tina]

I really need some help here! I am just starting to tool leather. I've done some repairs and such in the past, but have never really tried my hand at much more. I have poured over these forums and read most of the posts on casing and carving leather. From what I understand everybody carves the leather while it is damp. Everytime I try I leave terrible drag marks!! I know that my knife needs to be sharper, but if I carve on dry leather it actually carves pretty decent. I can't help but think I am missing something. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated!! I don't know what I would have done if I hadn't found this site, you are all great!

Hi there:-)

You're right, the carving is on damp leather (cased leather). Make sure your knife is sharp, there is no if end or buts about that one...You also need to strop that blade as often as every time you lift the knife from your work if it is one of the ordinary knifes/blades.

Hope this helps you a wee bit and Good Luck to you//Tina

[Tkleather1]

I am by no means the expert here, but it sounds to me like you are either too wet or a way too dull of knife. you want your leather to feel cool but be roughly the same color as if it were dry. and you want your swivel knife as sharp as you can get it. I know that the experts will get on here and tell you exactly what is wrong but these are my opinions and what it sounds like to me.

Good luck.

Tim

[Go2Tex]

Drag can come from a couple different causes. Maybe you just need to strop the blade. A sharp edge needs to be polished. I usually have to strop a few times during a cutting if it's big. Some leather seems to have a tendency to create drag more than others. Drum dyed leather drags and chirps or chatters the blade after a few cuts and I have to strop it clean again. Must be the oil or something in it. It might be the leather is dry in the middle and is grabbing the blade or won't open up for the blade as you cut it.

Then, it might be those dang pesky grimlins...... the same ones that make those mystery marks that all of a sudden pop up right in the middle of a piece of work where you swear there wasn't any before.

[jiml]

Thanks all....I think it's a little bit of everything mentioned here! I let the leather dry out a bit more and it worked much better...now just to get this knife sharp and I think it's a start!

[Mike Craw]

Hey Jim!

I just got back from Asheville, NC where I took a class at the Extreme Leather Workshop from Pete Gorrell, an Al Stohlman Award Winner and the Academy of Western Artists Saddle Maker of the Year in 2000. ArtS from this forum and I finally met face to face in this class, and both of us learned a ton. I'm self taught and have been abusing leather since 1981, and I learned more in those three days than I have managed to teach myself the rest of the time.

One thing Pete mentioned is that most folks tend to carve (or actually tool) too wet. The leather should actually dry back to almost its original color. It will feel cooler than room temp when you touch it with the back of your hand which means it still has moisture in it. Some folks swear by putting a carving solution in their casing water. Some use a tiny amount of dish soap. Pete showed us a trick using a little spray of Lexol leather conditioner rubbed in with our hands and then just a drop of baby shampoo rubbed in until the foam disappeared. My knife never flowed through the leather as smoothly. Of course, my carving didn't get any better looking, but is sure was smooth!!

Hope this helps.

Mike

[Dwight]

Like most, . . . I too had a time with these problems, . . . but the biggest part of my problem was solved by a friend who showed me a slick trick for keeping your knife sharp.

Take a piece of the grey colored porous cardboard that is like the inside of a cereal box.

Cut it to a piece 8 or 10 inches long and 1 or 2 inches wide. Rub it hard with several wide strokes of jeweler's rouge.

Then just draw your knife blade along it from time to time (about every 4 or 5 minutes for me), . . . watching to be sure you keep the blade angle flat against the cardboard. It keeps a nice sharp edge on your blade as you cut.

Be sure to draw away from the sharp edge and look for the black streak behind you as you go. It tells you that metal is being removed from the blade, . . . sharpening it. I usually do 4 or 5 pulls on each side, . . . then go back to carving.

May God bless,

Dwight

[tashabear]

Like most, . . . I too had a time with these problems, . . . but the biggest part of my problem was solved by a friend who showed me a slick trick for keeping your knife sharp.

Take a piece of the grey colored porous cardboard that is like the inside of a cereal box.

Cut it to a piece 8 or 10 inches long and 1 or 2 inches wide. Rub it hard with several wide strokes of jeweler's rouge.

Then just draw your knife blade along it from time to time (about every 4 or 5 minutes for me), . . . watching to be sure you keep the blade angle flat against the cardboard. It keeps a nice sharp edge on your blade as you cut.

Be sure to draw away from the sharp edge and look for the black streak behind you as you go. It tells you that metal is being removed from the blade, . . . sharpening it. I usually do 4 or 5 pulls on each side, . . . then go back to carving.

May God bless,

Dwight

This works with business cards, too. (I'm more likely to have business cards handy than breakfast cereal.)

[hidepounder]

The drag felt when carving leather is the result of a build-up of crystals on the steel caused from a reaction between the steel and the chemicals used in the tanning process. The sharper the blade the easier it is to cut, obviously...it also makes it easier to remove the build-up on the blade when the blade is stropped! Improper stropping results in dulling a blade more than the carving does. When I'm tooling a large area, I often begin cutting when the leather is too wet, knowing that by the time I begin stamping, the moisture content will be optimal. Cutting leather when it is a little too wet is not a problem...but a dull knife is always a problem! I have yet to meet a beginning or novice tooler with an appropriately sharp knife. It's one of the things that's difficult to learn... when you don't really know what sharp is, you don't when you're finished sharpening!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Bob

[jiml]

Hey Jim!

I just got back from Asheville, NC where I took a class at the Extreme Leather Workshop from Pete Gorrell, an Al Stohlman Award Winner and the Academy of Western Artists Saddle Maker of the Year in 2000. ArtS from this forum and I finally met face to face in this class, and both of us learned a ton. I'm self taught and have been abusing leather since 1981, and I learned more in those three days than I have managed to teach myself the rest of the time.

One thing Pete mentioned is that most folks tend to carve (or actually tool) too wet. The leather should actually dry back to almost its original color. It will feel cooler than room temp when you touch it with the back of your hand which means it still has moisture in it. Some folks swear by putting a carving solution in their casing water. Some use a tiny amount of dish soap. Pete showed us a trick using a little spray of Lexol leather conditioner rubbed in with our hands and then just a drop of baby shampoo rubbed in until the foam disappeared. My knife never flowed through the leather as smoothly. Of course, my carving didn't get any better looking, but is sure was smooth!!

Hope this helps.

Mike

Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to help me! Mike, great advice....do you add the lexol and / or baby shampoo right before you start carving or as part of your casing process??

[TwinOaks]

Additives are usually a part of the casing process.

When you strop the knife, make sure you've got a mirror-like finish on the primary bevel on the swivel knife. That lets you know it's a smooth as you're gonna get it.

My strops are generally cut offs and scraps of leather...and I'm forever making a new one because I keep losing the ones I make from scrap.

Edited April 10, 2009 by TwinOaks

[Mike Craw]

Jim,

The way Pete did it was to case with whatever solution you normally use (we had water with a little Pro Carve in it) bag it, and let the leather case as normal. Just as it gets ready to carve, spray evenly with a light coat of Lexol Conditioner (not Cleaner) and rub it into the leather with your hand. After there is no more Lexol on the surface put a drop of Johnson's Baby Shampoo in the center of the carving area and rub in until the shampoo foam is gone. Then go ahead and carve.

That's the way we did it.

Mike

Edit: This would go a lot quicker if my fingers would spell the words I'm typing!

Edited April 10, 2009 by Mike Craw

[Go2Tex]

The drag felt when carving leather is the result of a build-up of crystals on the steel caused from a reaction between the steel and the chemicals used in the tanning process. .........Bob

Aah sooo...... that would explain it! I too begin cutting wet for fear of drying out too soon and wet leather seems to cause more drag. I figured it was friction or something at that point. I just love those "bingo" moments I always get here on the forum.

We've been having really dry weather down here this year and I have been dealing with quick drying leather as opposed to having to sit and wait for the dang stuff to get ready. Normally it's a bit more humid and the leather just never seems to get ready. So, now I'm keeping it under plastic and just working small areas at a time. Cutting it wet is not as good as waiting until it's ready. The cuts close up and you have more trouble getting your beveler to stay down in them as you walk it.

One thing about knowing when the leather is ready, the old thing about feeling for the coolness with the back of your hand...... never works for me. I can't tell that way. I just can't. I have to judge by the appearance, the color and the texture and just plain give it a test with a beveler. I guess that's why it so hard for me to switch from drum dyed to natural colored leather, different times of the year, weather conditions, shop temperature, and most of all, lighting!

I wish there were a better way. How about using a moisture meter like the home inspectors use? Anybody ever tried it?

[hidepounder]

Aah sooo...... that would explain it! I too begin cutting wet for fear of drying out too soon and wet leather seems to cause more drag. I figured it was friction or something at that point. I just love those "bingo" moments I always get here on the forum.

We've been having really dry weather down here this year and I have been dealing with quick drying leather as opposed to having to sit and wait for the dang stuff to get ready. Normally it's a bit more humid and the leather just never seems to get ready. So, now I'm keeping it under plastic and just working small areas at a time. Cutting it wet is not as good as waiting until it's ready. The cuts close up and you have more trouble getting your beveler to stay down in them as you walk it.

One thing about knowing when the leather is ready, the old thing about feeling for the coolness with the back of your hand...... never works for me. I can't tell that way. I just can't. I have to judge by the appearance, the color and the texture and just plain give it a test with a beveler. I guess that's why it so hard for me to switch from drum dyed to natural colored leather, different times of the year, weather conditions, shop temperature, and most of all, lighting!

I wish there were a better way. How about using a moisture meter like the home inspectors use? Anybody ever tried it?

Brent,

When your leather is so wet it's closing up, then that's way too wet. However, you can cut when the leather is just a little too wet to tool, without any negative results...the cuts will still remain open. It will buy you a little more time when you need it. I'm not advocating cutting wet leather, I'm just saying you can push the envelope a little when it's advantageous to do so. Nothing feels better than taking a sharp swivel knife to perfectly cased leather, but sometimes a guy needs more time for tooling when the leather moisture is just right! I use color as a barometer more than temperature, also.

Bob

[Go2Tex]

....... Nothing feels better than taking a sharp swivel knife to perfectly cased leather, ...........Bob

I don't know, Bob. There are a "few" things that come to mind. But that could be a bit off topic there....

[hidepounder]

I don't know, Bob. There are a "few" things that come to mind. But that could be a bit off topic there....

Okay, okay...I concede, you're right!...I did get a little carried away with that statement!