Shot whips, bags, and details of.....

[DougCim]

You could also use a wooden dowel instead of a broomstick.

The wooden handle was because I wanted to use it to make the shot bag around, and also to get the widths for the plaits. I found some 3-foot pieces at the hardware store, but didn't want the bother of gluing them together.

It sounds like you are making more of a percussion type defense tool rather than a whip. Just remember that the weight of that shot adds up quickly when put into a whip. My first one was called "Big Ugly" because it was big and man was it ever ugly. But it taught me a lot about whipmaking. I think I had enough shot in it to make four or five snakewhips. ...

The original reason I got interested in whips at all was to have a short one to carry while bicycling, to ward off threatening dogs. The pocket snakes and signal whips sold online are built rather thin which is better for cracking but not so great for striking an animal with; I wanted something thicker that would tend to hit more and cut less (if any situation comes to that).

The last picture is the shot-loaded core, 36" long (the length of the dowel) and an 18-inch end redhide piece. I had intended to do two braided layers, but may just leave it at the one depending on how thick it ends up after the first layer.

[DougCim]

The first time I tried to cut out the plaiting I made a layout/mental error and only cut it half as wide as needed, and only 3/4 as long as I had planned. So I threw that piece aside for the moment and tried again, and managed to do it the second attempt fairly accurately.

After I plaited it around the shot core, the end result was pretty thick. .....And heavy.

It will work for the dog use I mentioned, but isn't real lively, and wouldn't crack at all. It's only got the 4-plait, and I won't bother adding any more.

Just for fun I decided to braid up the first attempt at cutting plaits, to see if I could make a smaller whip out of that. I left it without any core, and with a fall and cracker added it wouldn't crack at all.

,,,,,

Then I got the bright idea of tying the little 3.5-foot whip onto the end of the heavy 4-foot whip.

The first thing I noticed is that one eight-foot-whip is way more fun than two four-foot whips. :D

The "stacked" whip will sometimes crack quite well, when it is lined up just right. The carry-through action is lousy because of the uneven transition from one whip to the other, but I expected that.

Also I notice that it eats falls. I was using the same 2-3 oz. leather for the falls that I used for the braiding, and was ejecting crackers sometimes every 2nd or 3rd crack. I can see I'm gonna have to go to the leather store and get something thicker.

For crackers I bought some mason's twine (white nylon/polyester/polypropylene), some Power Pro braided fishing line, and some cotton twine. I got the braided fishing line because I was aware of how strong it was for other uses. The 10-lb I got is rather fine, but doubled-over about ten times it does okay. Except for how it's colored....

And now I also see why some whips have crackers that are bright red.

I had the fishing-line cracker on and was outside, and the fall end broke off (again) and the dark green cracker took off and landed..... in the green grass. And is still laying out there somewhere on the lawn, several hours later. The hardware store sells hot-pink mason's twine, and I think I may switch to using that.

Also I am working on a longer, twisted leather-core snakewhip now, 12-ft or so thong. 8-plait over 4 is what I am thinking of at the moment.

~

Edited April 23, 2009 by DougCim

[DougCim]

I plaited a twisted-leather core in 4 strands, and then did an 8-plait over that. In the 8-plait I did the "handle" area in 1-over-1-under for a bit, then switched to 2-over-2-under for the rest of the length. I noticed that there are two strands (opposite each other and in the same direction) at the transition that are 3-over. I re-did this bit a few times but could not get rid of the 3-over strands. Is there a way to do a perfect transition from 1-over-1-under to 2-over-2-under or not? (the scissors are pointed to one of the 3-over strands)

....Also I was wondering, does the plaiting soap (Ivory and lard) need to be kept refrigerated or not?

~

[DougCim]

Also another question, this about skiving: the book shows that all the strands are skived the same way, but this results in half of them being skived the wrong direction. Ideally (I would think) you would want each successive 2-over strand run to fit underneath the overhanging edge of the 2-over strand that preceded it, but if you skive the strands normally then half are tucked under, and the other half are laid over.

To get them to lay as properly as possible, they would need to be skived in opposite directions based on what direction they are laid around the whip. Does anyone do this? I have not seen it mentioned.

~

[jerryrwm]

Also another question, this about skiving: the book shows that all the strands are skived the same way, but this results in half of them being skived the wrong direction. Ideally (I would think) you would want each successive 2-over strand run to fit underneath the overhanging edge of the 2-over strand that preceded it, but if you skive the strands normally then half are tucked under, and the other half are laid over.

To get them to lay as properly as possible, they would need to be skived in opposite directions based on what direction they are laid around the whip. Does anyone do this? I have not seen it mentioned.

~

Not sure what you mean by skiving in opposite directions. If you are referencing Ron Edwards book he shows how to bevel redhide by skiving the opposite corners - top corner and opposite bottom corner.

_______

/ /

When using thinner hide such as 'roo or kip etc, skive both bottom corners.

_______

\ /

Then if you want an extremely smooth finish, lightly skive the two top corners.

Then roll the whip to smooth it out.

Edited May 2, 2009 by jerryrwm

[jerryrwm]

Crap..that illustration didn't work.

[DougCim]

In the Ron Edwards book, he shows how to bevel the opposite corners.

What I was curious about was if it was possible to skive half the strands the "other way"--so that as you moved from the handle to the point of the whip, all the strands would tuck under each previous strand, like a snake's scales.

After making some diagrams I do not believe it is possible to really improve the situation in this regard, at least with a 2-over plait. With either arrangement (-skiving all the strands in the same direction or skiving half the strands in the opposite direction-) there are places that meet ideally and places that do not; changing the skiving on half the strands only moves the 'less-than-ideal' places around. It does not eliminate or reduce them.

~

[TrustCommunicationConsent]

First off - No neatsfoot oil, No mink oil, No petroleum based oils. They cause the fibers to swell and eventually breakdown quicker.

David Morgan's recipe of lard, ivory soap and water works well. Peter Jack adds beeswax to the mixture. You can add a little eucalyptus oil if you want to deter critters. (I never have had anything chew on any of my whips, even those that have not been used due to the age of the whips - I have one that is approx 50 yrs old and another that is right around 30 yrs old.). Shave the soap (large bar of Ivory) into boiling water stirring to help dissolve it. Shave up a piece of beeswax - about the size of a golf ball and stir it into the soap water. Add a pound of lard and melt it into the solution. After it is all dissolved and melted together remove from heat and cool slightly. Then using an electric mixer, whip the mixture until it has the consistancy of chip dip. Store it in a plastic coffee can or other container that you can close up so it doesn't dry out.

The shot bag is not really that long for a 3' signal whip or snake whip. It is usually around 12"-16" long. Depending on the whip length I use a shot bag that is not much bigger than 7-9mm in diameter at the top end, and tapers to about 3-4mm at the end where I attach the core which tapers to a fine point. So the overall core and bag of my 3' snakewhip is about 24" long.

To pack the shot bag, I use a long slender knitting needle. Add a bit of shot, poke and pack, smack it on the table (careful doing this! If your bag isn't well constructed you'll have shot all over the place. Took me several hours to find most of it in the carpet and everywhere else!) Keep adding the shot in layers, packing and poking as you go. You'll have a nice firm bag that won't shift and distort if you do it this way. If you will make the shot bag an inch or so longer than your final length. This will leave you room to seal the butt end and still have it packed tight. Now you need to roll it beneath a board to smooth and round it. And you will find that you are not using that much shot in each whip - a couple ounces at most. Unless you are making a whip that is for use as a long "blackjack sap".

Hope this helps,

Jerry

Something I had not seen before; you attach a core to the endo of the shot bag? Frirst time I have seen anyone mention that. a couple of questions first is the core a tapered/ bevled / rounded bit of leather?

next how long is it and how attached to the bottom of the shot bag?

(approx 8" long)?

[jerryrwm]

Something I had not seen before; you attach a core to the endo of the shot bag? Frirst time I have seen anyone mention that. a couple of questions first is the core a tapered/ bevled / rounded bit of leather?

next how long is it and how attached to the bottom of the shot bag?

(approx 8" long)?

The core is usually a 6" - 8" length of latigo that is tapered from about 3 mm to a point. After I cut it to tapered length, I roll it to try and make it as round and symetrical as possible.

I attach it to the bag, by placing about an inch or so inside the bag before loading the shot. Then using artificial sinew, I wrap it with a whipping of the sinew. It doesn't take much, and you don't want to much that would make a stiff spot in the whip. Tie it enough so that you can pack the heck out of the shot. Once you put the bolster and belly on over the shot bag, there won't be much space for the core to come out of the bag. Then when you plait the overlay everything should be firm and tight and straight.

Hope that helps,

Jerry

[Handmadewhips]

In the Ron Edwards book, he shows how to bevel the opposite corners.

What I was curious about was if it was possible to skive half the strands the "other way"--so that as you moved from the handle to the point of the whip, all the strands would tuck under each previous strand, like a snake's scales.

After making some diagrams I do not believe it is possible to really improve the situation in this regard, at least with a 2-over plait. With either arrangement (-skiving all the strands in the same direction or skiving half the strands in the opposite direction-) there are places that meet ideally and places that do not; changing the skiving on half the strands only moves the 'less-than-ideal' places around. It does not eliminate or reduce them.

~

This is something that I do on thicker hide.. The left side set is a mirror image of the right side set.. the hair side skives would be facing each other as you look at the set. So on an 8plait when you bring the strand around back and under 2 over two, the flesh side skive lays a bit on top of the hair side skive on both sides.

on a thin leather like roo i like to do the two flesh sides.