Saddle Fitters

[Denise]

I have been hearing and reading more about "Professional Saddle Fitters" lately and I must admit that this is a new concept to me. My questions are: What or who qualifies someone to be a professional (or non-professional) saddle fitter? Is there any regulation of the industry anywhere? What type of training do they have? How much they charge? Do they sell saddles too or is that considered a conflict of interest? We have quite the selection of people from around the world here so I wonder if it is different over in Europe or Australia than here in North America.

[barra]

Denise, you are delving into dangerous territory.

from Denise.

I have been hearing and reading more about "Professional Saddle Fitters" lately and I must admit that this is a new concept to me. My questions are: What or who qualifies someone to be a professional (or non-professional) saddle fitter? Is there any regulation of the industry anywhere? What type of training do they have? How much they charge? Do they sell saddles too or is that considered a conflict of interest? We have quite the selection of people from around the world here so I wonder if it is different over in Europe or Australia than here in North America.

I can touch on English saddles. Training is provided via the SMS leading to assessment by the City and guilds/National proficiency tests council

http://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/

In Australia when it comes to saddlery, every man and his dog throws around the terms qualified, fully qualified, accredited and Master saddler. To gain formal trade recognition (on any trade) your Training must meet certain competencies via training provided by an RTO (registered training organisation) leading to a nationally recognised qualification.

Here is a link to saddle fitter training in Australia which I will research further.

http://www.warmbloods-australia.com/genera...ding_saddle.php

Your head would spin when you start to delve into all the Govt. regulations leading to gaining trade recognition here.

Barra

Edited April 21, 2009 by barra

[Kevin]

I was going to comment here, but this is such a deep well I think I will stay out.

But can I?

There are some excellent fitters.

But probably 75% don't have any more experience than the average rider, just more confidence. Kinda like some trainers, they've had one more lesson than you, so they know more.

Around our area, we've got more "expert" horseshoers, teeth floaters, and saddle fitters than you can shake a stick at, and that's not to mention all the other practicioners of various methods of magic and voodoo.

Humans have been domesticating animals for thousands of years and yet so many "discoveries" in behavior and technology have been made in the last 15-20 years. I'm not saying it's all BS, but a lot is, in my opinion.

OK, I'll shut up now, just be careful dealing with experts and masters, especially if they're selling something.

See?, I just can't get out of that hole,

Kevin

[Denise]

Barra,

I need to digest the links you put up. Some interesting statements there...

Kevin,

Could you/would you explain more? My perspective so far is that the whole idea of saddle fitters is much more from the eastern 1/2 of the continent and has been primarily from the English riding world. Do you know how the fitters in your area get their "accreditation"? Are there courses in North America like there is in Australia and the UK?

[Kevin]

The only accreditation that I know of is from The Master Saddlers Guild in England and in order to take their course, you have to sell tack and 70% of it has to be English made. That in itself is a conflict of interest to me, but I also realise that it is for protection and promotion of English saddlery.

Maybe Master Saddler can clear this up some, he is an actual Master saddler, I haven't seen him post anything for a while though.

Here in the US we throw around the word master a lot, to the point I don't think it means much anymore. It is supposed to mean you have been through all the ranks of a union or guild and we don't have that in leather, maybe they did in the big shops in the old days. Saddle Harness and Allied Trades was trying to do it for a while, but I guess that fell apart because you had to pay to be considered and that probably caused some disinterest.

Hope that answers something,

Kevin

[barra]

http://www.nptc.org.uk/qualifications/default.asp?area=128

Scroll down to

Saddlery Advanced Certificate Level 3 (4750)

Then open

Scheme Handbook. I think the competencies for saddle fitting are mentioned there.

FROM

http://www.mastersaddlers.co.uk/

Click on saddle fitting via the buttons at the top of the page and then fitting course via the buttons on the left side of the page.

The introductory course is aimed at SMS members, members of the British Equestrian Trade Association and some other equestrian professionals and it provides a two day introduction to the principles of saddle fitting:

INTRODUCTORY COURSE IN SADDLE FITTING

The Qualified Saddle Fitters course is a more advanced course aimed at Society members who have been fitting saddles for a number of years and who want to refine their saddle fitting to the standards promoted by the Society and approved by City & Guilds / NPTC. Once a Saddle Fitter achieves their qualified status they attend additional training seminars to maintain their knowledge to current standards:

QUALIFIED SADDLE FITTERS COURSE

The Society has a relatively large sphere of influence overseas and also runs courses for overseas saddle fitters:

OVERSEAS RETAILERS' QUALIFIED SADDLE FITTERS COURSE

US INTRODUCTORY SADDLE FITTING COURSE

I am yet to find or know of anything related to Western saddle fitters qualifications (or saddle makers qualifications for that matter). More research needed. I might start a new thread so as not to hijack Denise's "fitting" thread

Barra

Barra

Edited April 22, 2009 by barra

[Tosch]

I mainly ran into the term "Professional Saddle Fitter" when surfing US websites. The only American qualification/certification institution I saw can be seen here http://www.saddlemakers.org/id112.htm. Although they do not list a "saddle fitter" certification - saddle fitting is part of becoming a certified retailer - I seem to remember they had that , but I might be wrong.

In the German speaking European countries to gain formal trade recognition (on any trade) one has do to a apprenticeship (generally around 3 years). It is a regulated training/schooling. Most of the time is spent in the workshop but a good amount of time is spend in school where one gets the theoretical background. And it is regulated what you learn in the first year of the apprecenticeship, in the second, in the third - and of course you have to pass a final exam. If you want to become a master in your trade you have to work for a few years in your trade first, then go back to school - and of course take another exam. And to take on an apprentice you have to be a master in your trade.

But this applies to trades (saddlemaker, car mechanic, airplane mechanic,..). And not to the important but "small" (lack of proper term) area of fitting a saddle. I have not heard of a saddle fitter certification here. Although I could imagine that you could spend a day or two with a saddlemaker and he/she provides you with his/her own certification.

Or you might think you know a bit more then the next person and call yourself a saddle fitter, and when you get paid for it you are probably a professional saddle fitter....

[daviD A Morris]

I've also came accross the qualification SFT (Saddle Fit Technician). Where does one study for that qualification, who accredits it and just how good is that accreditation?

Can anyone point me to a book on horse anatomy that shows (or refers to ) the paraspinal ligaments. I watched a very profesionaly run presentation by a qualified SFT in which, amoung other things, she emphasized the importance of the saddle not apply weight to the paraspinal ligaments down either side of the spine. Yet my search through books and equiries with qualified vets, so far has not been able to find any reference anywhere to the paraspinal ligaments. It is as if there is no such ligaments - I'm Just curious, and trying to fill in my education, not trying to cause any controversy here. As others have said, this topic is a "can of worms" and can be highly controversial.

eagerly awaiting further education

dam

[mulefool]

There is a gal about an hour from here that has one of those computer saddle fitting pads. The way I understand it you put on the pad which has sensors in it that is somehow hooked to a computer. She has the person ride and it shows up on a screen where there are hot spots. She sells saddles, too and will take a bunch out along with different pads and play around with them to get a fit with no hot spots. I have talked to people who felt it was useful for them.

Do the English saddle fitters also do the adjusting of the wool in the panels? Or do they just describe what is wrong and then the owner takes the saddle to a saddle repair person? Chris

[Denise]

Interesting information coming out here.

The Society of Master Saddlers in the UK seems to have the most comprehensive courses. To take their introductory course in the UK, you need to be part of their organization or be another "equine related professional", so at least you need some background with horses to start. But their introductory course is only 2 days long, and a vet or physiotherapist doesn't come in with much knowledge of how a saddle is made or works. I have problems seeing how in two days you can understand saddles, horse's anatomy and biomechanics and how they all relate. You could learn some "rules to follow" but to really understand the why - I kind of doubt it. At least it is a start. To be a Qualified Saddle Fitter you need at least 3 years experience in saddle fitting (as an unqualified saddle fitter??) and be a member of their society or "qualified saddler or higher". So at least you need to know something about saddles to be official qualified by the SMS. That course is only 4 days and one for assessment. Their US course is two days long and other than "being employed in the equestrian industry" there is no prerequisites for it, though "Preference will be given to those who own or are employed by a business which is retailing saddles manufactured in the UK." You don't get Qualified from that course. However the Overseas Retailers Course will Qualify you. It is four days plus a day of assessment and you need to be recommended by a member of the SMS and work in a business that sells at least 33% of UK made goods. Conflict of interest would be a concern here I would think. The NPTC out of the UK (I can't find on their site what that stands for!) uses the SMS system as part of their criteria to become a saddle maker, but it is not a stand alone qualification. They recommend 40 hours for that section but it includes fitting harnesses, bridles and other tack. All this is English only.

The Australian one is more interesting. It is run by Horseland - a commercial enterprise. For $1200 dollars (discounted if you are a Horseland employee!) you can take a 2 day course (they say you need certain prerequisites but they are not given) - work for a year (unqualified?), then take an exam. You can take another 4 days (no cost mentioned) to get Level 2 qualification. What I find interesting is the quote

Be aware of differences between certified saddlery qualifications: Saddle Fitters, Saddlers or Master Saddlers. A Saddler or Master Saddler may not know how to properly fit a saddle. Ensure that your Saddler or Master Saddler is accredited or certified in saddle fitting as well as saddle making.

I guess I always assumed that a person actually making a saddle (not just a production line employee, but a real saddle maker) would know more about how saddles work on horses than a tack shop employee with a two day course subsidized by the company they work for. Conflict of interest? I would think so.

David, I think the SFT is given by the Saddlefit4life group that sells the Schleese saddles endorsed on the Australian site.

Doesn't sound like there is anything offically set up in Europe.

Is the American Saddle Makers Association is still going? What are their accreditation standards for a saddle fitter? Anyone know? So far it is the only thing around that might deal with western saddles.

I found an interesting couple of quote from a link from the Australian site here. This is a woman in the US who is fully "Qualified" from the SMS in the UK.

I was a long way down the road in this job and had already become a qualified fitter in the UK before I really began to get an inkling of how saddles work below the surface of the panel. ... Needless to say, the geometry of trees and the physics of load-bearing structures were never specifically addressed in my training as a saddle fitter, nor have they featured in any significant way in any book or magazine article I have ever read on the subject.

Hmmm...

I am thinking Kevin's quote might sadly be the reality here in North America.

But probably 75% don't have any more experience than the average rider, just more confidence.

Somebody, please refute this and tell me it ain't so!