Advice on sewing machine purchase

[ponyup]

Hi, This is my first post. I am new to leatherworking, and would like to buy a used or new sewing machine that would be suitable for making chaps, saddlebags and the like. I would be using some of the lighter weight leathers to start, not veg tan for the bags. I am not wanting to spend more than about $700.00 at this time. Specific model #s on any machines would be appreciated.

Thanks ponyup

[TracyMoss]

You might want to reevaluate your ideas of what a good machine will cost. While you can certainly find a good used machine for that price. One that will do everything you need, will cost much more. The saddle bags will in my experience require you to buy a cylinder arm machine, unless you are just wanting to make them out of chap leather. You can make some bags out of a table machine, but usually whan a gusset is invloved the table machine doesn't allow enough clearance. Good luck in your search.

[Art]

Hi Pony,

For a new sewing machine user, I always say buy new, learn the machine, then buy used if you HAVE to. If you haven't the slightest mechanical inclination, buy new from a dealer that will provide great service. The service is worth the extra cost. The cost of a new sewing machine is right up there with a weekend in Las Vegas or Atlantic City with the wife or friend and the machine will still be there when the other is gone. That being said, if you only have $700 then you will have to settle for something less; it won't have a speed reducer, it won't have a servo motor, it might not even have an instruction manual, and worse, it might need repair. Deal with a reputable purveyor of used industrial machines. These guys go out and buy 100 machines at a time off factory floors and take them back to their facilities and put them in acceptable order. They'll make a hundred or two on a machine but they push a lot of machines. However they are not there to hold your hand, you are expected to be able to get it running (simple setup stuff) on your own. On an older machine, you might not get things like reverse, bobbin winders, etc., but these are things you can deal with.

Good machines are the Singer 111W155, and 153W101, 102, and 103 if you need a cylinder arm instead of a flat bed. The Pfaff 145, 545, 1245. Note well, If it doesn't have a separate motor of 1/2 hp or more, it isn't industrial, and if you see "industrial strength" or "commercial", RUN....faster! On Pfaff machines (I have them), they are wonderful, highly engineered machines that seem to run forever and a used one in good shape cheap is a deal that can be great. If you have to fix them and replace parts, they are not inexpensive, like Mercedes Benz not inexpensive. If you get a good one and treat it right, you will never have to find out. As a percentage of sewing machines built in the last century, less than one percent were ever designed to do leather stitching and it truly amazes me the number of "industrial strength" and "for leather" machines I see today on eBay and Craig's List. When I say "truly amazes me", that is not a good thing. There are really a lot of hucksters out there trying to sell something for way more than it is worth by imparting nebulous attributes to it that are in a nut shell untrue. "Industrial strength" means nothing, and "commercial" means home sewing machine. "For Leather" means you can stitch 1oz or 2oz on it with a leather needle. Sometimes you will see YouTube videos of standard machines sewing multiple layers of leather; they are using chrome tanned leather and sewing for a short period of time, and are always "wheeling" (out of sight in the video) the machine to get it going. Sew like that for 15 minuted straight and the motor would be smoking if still running at all. Sew like that on veg tan and you will break needles all the time so you might not heat-up the motor, but you will skip stitches from the thread melting and sticking to the overheated needle. In all fairness, Raphael Sewing up in Montreal does have some YouTube videos of their GA5-1 machine that is a real leather machine that will sew like that all day (they are a respectable dealer). Commercial home sewing machines are not designed to handle heavier thread like 138 and 207 and some not even 69 or 92, but some of the "Tailors" machines like the old Singer 19 and 31 will. So just be careful out there, there's sharks in them waters.

Sorry for the rant.

Art

Hi, This is my first post. I am new to leatherworking, and would like to buy a used or new sewing machine that would be suitable for making chaps, saddlebags and the like. I would be using some of the lighter weight leathers to start, not veg tan for the bags. I am not wanting to spend more than about $700.00 at this time. Specific model #s on any machines would be appreciated.

Thanks ponyup

[bcurrier]

Art's advice is excellent.

I think you're going to have a hard time finding a machine in your price range that will let you make the bags. If I'm reading you right, you want to start with lighter weight leathers, but want the machine to be suitable for heavier veg-tanned leather also. On the other hand, if you stick with the light to medium weights in terms of the machine's capabilities, you'll have no trouble in your price range, used anyway.

If you luck into a decent Pfaff 1245 for the money, grab it. I see lots of the Singers Art mentions, but a lot of them are pretty used up. Another machine to look for would be a Consew 206RB, which you're more likely than the Pfaff to find for $700 or so, as they're about $1,300 new where the Pfaff new is about twice that.

Bill

[Art]

Bill and Tracy are on target about the bags. On almost any kind of bag a cylinder arm or a post machine will be much easier to use than a flat bed machine, putting a gusset in is darned near impossible with a flat bed, the bed and table just don't let you position the bag to get into the gusset to sew, if you do real close work the roller post machine is the way to go. Room to work is necessary for some operations, and a total waste of space for others. Shoe machines are very compact for just this reason. Industrial sewing machines were and still are built for one type of operation, with modifications to tune them for the specifics. This is why it is hard to find a used machine for general work and a wide range of utility. The Juki TSC 441 (and clones) came the closest of any machine to being an all around machine for heavy work and with modifications had a wide range, but even there it is really not adequate for lighter work or anything requiring higher speeds. Also when doing bags, it is sometimes easier to be standing when doing them, it is easier to manipulate the work and sometimes easier to see from above. If you are really constrained money wise, and can live without reverse, a Singer 153W102 would be a good machine. One in good shape should cost less than $500 with stand and fitting a servo motor will cost another $150. But condition can be a problem, especially for the novice. Double the $700 and you can really go shopping. But even then you won't find the machine that will do everything, we're all still looking for that. The best we can hope for is one that does everything or most everything we do.

Art

Art's advice is excellent.

I think you're going to have a hard time finding a machine in your price range that will let you make the bags. If I'm reading you right, you want to start with lighter weight leathers, but want the machine to be suitable for heavier veg-tanned leather also. On the other hand, if you stick with the light to medium weights in terms of the machine's capabilities, you'll have no trouble in your price range, used anyway.

If you luck into a decent Pfaff 1245 for the money, grab it. I see lots of the Singers Art mentions, but a lot of them are pretty used up. Another machine to look for would be a Consew 206RB, which you're more likely than the Pfaff to find for $700 or so, as they're about $1,300 new where the Pfaff new is about twice that.

Bill

[ponyup]

Thanks for your posts, I was not planning on trying to sew veg-tanned with this first machine. Rather I thought to first garner some skill doing flatwork, getting the feel for what leather sewing is all about. I have learned enough from reading other posts that one machine cannot do it all. I just want to try and choose a good machine that will get me started, this way if I really like it I can get a heavier duty machine that will sew veg-tan later. Would the Artisan 797 be comparable to some of the machines listed above? Thanks for your input. Pony

[Art]

There are several flavors of the 797, most with walking foot, I think the 1797 is just regular drop feed. Better get with Steve at Artisan on that. Those are the same as the Mitsubishi (and a lot like the Brother 797) and are good solid machines. I think they also have a 797 that has a deeper throat and is taller, not sure on the model number.

Art

Thanks for your posts, I was not planning on trying to sew veg-tanned with this first machine. Rather I thought to first garner some skill doing flatwork, getting the feel for what leather sewing is all about. I have learned enough from reading other posts that one machine cannot do it all. I just want to try and choose a good machine that will get me started, this way if I really like it I can get a heavier duty machine that will sew veg-tan later. Would the Artisan 797 be comparable to some of the machines listed above? Thanks for your input. Pony