Purchasing leather

[rsg3]

I Have a couple of questions. First, i was talking to the folks at Zack White leather the other day and they told me that there aren't any tanneries in business in the U.S. now. I guess my question is, if this is true, how can you get still get leather like Herman Oak ? I thought these guys were a tannery.

My second question is, when buying leather would it be reasonable to ask the supplier for better quality leather. I bought some premium double shoulders the other day with the intention to make some belts and holsters out of them. When they arrived, they seem to be pretty good quality, but they had alot of stretch marks in them. The last double shoulder i got from these guys was practically flawless. I realize no two animals are the same, but is this something that i should just expect or is it reasonable to ask for something better within the grade of leather? Sorry if these questions are silly but i have limited experience buying leather.

[rdb]

The last time I talked to one of those guys we talked about the same thing. I think you may have misunderstood him. I was told, there were but a couple two VEGTAN tanneries in the US.

This I could believe.

I come from the North Shore of Boston, Shoe Capital of the USA. In my younger days there were tanneries on every corner. Boston had a real Leather District. Siegel's, Berman's, etc. (Lets talk old style quality vs 21st Century. That's another thread). Rapidly they were replaced with Condos. Nowadays, all the skins are pretanned, and shipped to Mexico, SA, or Euro. Most of the cow we are getting, probably come from South America.

I know for a fact, that any shop that sells leather, in between orders is down to the bottom of the palette. All the good skins have been culled. I would advise first, giving them a call. Problems can be solved very easily, I'm sure.

[rsg3]

I had talked to these folks middle of last year, and they told me what you told me, that there were only two tanneries left in U.S. . When i spoke to these folks the other they said there were no tanneries left in the U.S.. I specifically asked about Herman Oaks leather and why you could still buy it and was told that they were probably just selling the inventory that was left. I don't know, i'm just a newbie here, the whole thing seems kind of odd to me. Thanks for the advice, by the way.

Edited January 11, 2008 by rsg3

[Randy Cornelius]

At present there are only two tannaries left in the US that make Veg. tan leather. Herman Oak in St. Louis, Mo. and Wickett & Craig in Currensville, Pa.

There are a handfull of other tanneries left doing Crome and other varities. One comes to mind is Prime in St. Joseph, Mo.

When ordering hides from your sourse tell them what the hide is being used for so they can select the hide that best suits your needs. Different companies grade in different ways. Always ask for a #1 or a Grade A if wanting the best leather. I don't know much about Zack White Leather. So I cannot advise your there.

You can buy direct from the Tannery at Wickett & Craig. I will tell you that if you order A #1 hide from them you will not be dissapointed. I have never gotten a bad hide from them. If you call them ask for Glen, that is who I always deal with.

Randy

[JRedding]

rsq3, sounds like you're getting the runaround, and maybe taken advantage of. We buy a lot of leather and I know the value of a reputable supplier, would just like to suggest the folks at Sheridan Leather in Sheridan Wyoming, they're great to deal with, honest as you'll find, and know leather, talk to Luke or Vandy if you call, if you're not quite sure what you're needing just tell them what you want it for they'll be able to help you out.

Sheridan Leather Outfitters

2047 Coffeen Avenue

Sheridan Wyoming

82801

1-888-803-3030

[bruce johnson]

I am sure that HO and W/C are still soaking hides. If they weren't Dr Dan from Shoptalk would have it cover page news and probably put out a special edition. He was Johnny on the spot for a few other rumors that proved out to be true lately. They are right though, that nobody in the US is doing double shoulders, or at least was at last count.

Regarding the stretch marks on double shoulders, that just comes with the territory on shoulders sometimes. Hides behave the way they did on the living beast. The head is going up and down all day with eating and chewing. Backs don't move much. Flanks move a lot. Some of this can be used to our advantage. For instance, orienting a checkbook, photoalbum or planner so the fold is parallel with the way the cow moved makes it easier to stretch and make that fold. Trying to fold a strap from 4" off the centerline of the back is tighter fibered and might crack at a buckle fold. Some customers think you are using dry crappy leather when they see a stretch crack, when in fact you are using a prime part of the side. Obviously warm water and working the fold can prevent cracks, but you have to know what the hide did. Bellies are thinner usually and expand and contract all day with breathing, filling up on feed and water, and emptying. They are stretchy and not as tight a fiber. Flanks are constantly moving, they are the most stretch. Some guys take it pretty far. The rumen fills up the left flank. Throughout the day on some cattle, it can stretch and contract a lot. I had one OLD saddlemaker tell us that in the old shops the foreman would cut stirrup leather for the good saddles only from right sides. They thought the left sided straps had a little looser fiber and more stretch. Old men are generally wise, and I try to follow that rule out of respect (and a good story). It is pretty important in saddle work to use a part of the hide that will work for the application. Some things need to have little stretch like leathers and riggings., Others need to mold by stretching and compressing like a swell cover. Others just sit there. Some will curl if cut from too loose area. You really learn how sections behave doing that.

Shoulders are kind of unique. They flex front to back and are looser fibered than further back. They also cup over the shoulders and wrap around the neck. The lower aspects are getting down into the areas of the upper leg with some motion. It can get looser again. We cut this off the animal and are taking a bowl and making it flat. Because of the looser fibers it compresses together and makes a flatter piece. The excess can however make these ridges that are often called fat wrinkles. There are probably more wrinkles on the neck of a skinny old butcher cow than a fat steer. I think it is more a factor of excess skin than fat. Another factor are the heavier cattle and Brahma influenced breeds that get a little (or big) hump in their shoulders. Some of these shoulders are sold as "V cut" shoulders. They will have a V shape were a slice was made into them to provide relief so they could flatten out the piece. I have seen some shoulders in the flyers at times that even had a piece cut out of the center, that was excess hump leather cut out. Because of the natural stretch being front to back and less stretch side to side, most belts cut from shoulders are done crosswise. If the shoulders are long enough, they won't get into the looser ends with most belt ends. also because the wrinkles (compression) is linear with the belt, there will be realtively less stretch. When I was doing a lot of wholesale work, I did a lot of photoalbums and planners. I liked shoulders because I could orient them so the wrinkle worked to my advantage when making folds. Make the fold parallel with the wrinkle. Also the fat wrinkles on those sort of things added interest to the piece if they weren't tooled. They usually tooled OK and weren't noticeable when they were. That leather will also fold and compress and stay pretty flat. I could wet and stretch back leather OK, but when the fold was flattened out again, it wouldn't compress back and stood up as a wrinkle. Minor issue usually, but why cut hard firm leather and fight it when shoulders were less expensive and worked better for that application?

There are some that argue that belts shouldn't come from shoulders. we should be cutting them out of backs where the leather is firm, less stretch on the billet ends. Probably true to a point. In reality, I have stretched faster than any belts I have made for myself in the last several years. In fact, would welcome one that gave me about an inch every few years. My next Wranglers might move me into the $2 upcharge. Probably more than you wanted to know about leather, but I am waiting for finish to dry and then set some snaps.

[rsg3]

Thanks to all for the advice, thanks Bruce for the lesson .