Repair help

[gringobill]

I need help with the cantle back on a saddle I'm refurbishing. It is a Bill Oliver saddle with a modified association tree. The original tree broke and the whole tree was replaced by another repairman. This saddle is not that old but has had a mighty hard life. I think when the other fella replaced the tree he didn't glue the cantle back to the cantle board so it is loose and sloppy and the cantle roll (it's the traditional roll not a Cheyenne roll) had slack in it and actually rolls toward the front or seat, it's ugly and uncomfortable. I want to straighten it out and get it back where it belongs, right over the top edge of the cantle board. The cantle back is only attached to the bottom of the cantle board between the bars. I think it needs to be fastened to the bars in a couple of places also to hold it down?

So in looking at it and trying to figure out my options I have come up with these ideas:

1. remove the roll, glue the cantle back onto the cantle board where it's supposed to be and sew on either the original roll or a new one.

2. take the seat, roll and cantle back off in one piece and try to glue the whole thing back on. The problem I see with that is that the top of the seat, right at the top edge of the cantle board is worn through and I think the other guy put a patch under the hole and glued all of that together.

Also I am thinking if I was to try that I would need to use hide glue or something other than Barge because it is going to take some fiddling around to the cantle back positioned properly and it will need to slide around some.

3. Some of you may know of a way to glue or reposition and fasten the cantle back on with taking the whole thing apart? The cantle back needs to be pulled down onto the bars and attached in some way.

Thanks in advance for any tips I can get.

Bill

[jwwright]

Hi Bill............Sounds like a good project. Bill Oliver made good saddles, so this one should be worth the effort.

Unless the person who did the tree replacement changed things, there will be a filler piece between the seat leather and the cantle back leather, and this filler will be glued & tacked to the back side of the cantle. Could be the filler is on the seat side of the cantle, but I think Oliver put his on the back. Then the cantle binding was applied, and it was sewn through all the layers. So, being able to take the seat, cantle binding and cantle back off all in one shot would not be possible. This can be done on some lesser made saddles, but not a Bill Oliver..........again, unless the previous repair was done differently.

I think that what you'll need to do is remove the cantle binding and the remnant stitches, remove the seat, remove the cantle filler , and the cantle back. You are going to have quite a few stitch holes in the cantle back, filler and seat, since this saddle has had a cantle binding sewn at least twice all ready. So, I would think that you definitely will need to put on a new cantle back filler, at least. Then you could glue the cantle back on........most folks use a couple tacks here under between the bars in the cantle gullet, and a few tacks on the top side in the junction area where the cantle meets the bars. Then, put the seat back on, fit and sew a new cantle binding.

Just guessing a little bit here, based on the information you gave, but I hope this helps. JW

[gringobill]

Hi Bill............Sounds like a good project. Bill Oliver made good saddles, so this one should be worth the effort.

Unless the person who did the tree replacement changed things, there will be a filler piece between the seat leather and the cantle back leather, and this filler will be glued & tacked to the back side of the cantle. Could be the filler is on the seat side of the cantle, but I think Oliver put his on the back. Then the cantle binding was applied, and it was sewn through all the layers. So, being able to take the seat, cantle binding and cantle back off all in one shot would not be possible. This can be done on some lesser made saddles, but not a Bill Oliver..........again, unless the previous repair was done differently.

I think that what you'll need to do is remove the cantle binding and the remnant stitches, remove the seat, remove the cantle filler , and the cantle back. You are going to have quite a few stitch holes in the cantle back, filler and seat, since this saddle has had a cantle binding sewn at least twice all ready. So, I would think that you definitely will need to put on a new cantle back filler, at least. Then you could glue the cantle back on........most folks use a couple tacks here under between the bars in the cantle gullet, and a few tacks on the top side in the junction area where the cantle meets the bars. Then, put the seat back on, fit and sew a new cantle binding.

Just guessing a little bit here, based on the information you gave, but I hope this helps. JW

Thanks JW. I think you are spot on on everything you said. I had pretty much decided to do what you described. The cantle back IS tacked down in the cantle gullet and then on each end of the cantle binding. I think what I am seeing where the seat is worn thru at the top edge of the cantle is the filler in the seat rather than what I thought was a patch that the other guy put in. There were no tack thru the bottom edge of the cantle back and the bars, which I thought there should have been.

So I will take the cantle binding off and glue and tack the cantle back in place like it should be and then put a new cantle binding on and it should be good to go.

Thanks a lot for your reply, it was just what I needed! I will take some pix, then see if I can figure out how to post them on here. (one more challenge!)

An amigo of mine just got back from a trip thru the Flint Hills yesterday and said it was sure wet up there. That's a good thing!

Take care,

Bill

[gringobill]

The saga continues.

I took the cantle binding and cantle back off and there is no filler piece on the cantle back. The previous repairman had attempted to glue the cantle back directly to the rawhide but it didn't take. There was a lot of cement, probably Barge, on both the cantle and the cantle back but it didn't stick and over time the cantle back worked up, toward the top edge of the cantle which lead to the cantle roll rolling forward into the top edge of the seat.

I'm thinking I need to put a filler piece on the back of the cantle, glue AND tack it into place then glue the cantle back to that and tack it down in the cantle gullet and in a couple of places on the top of the bars.

The cantle back with stick to the filler piece way better than it did to the bare rawhide covering the back of the cantle.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Bill

[AndyKnight]

The saga continues.

I took the cantle binding and cantle back off and there is no filler piece on the cantle back. The previous repairman had attempted to glue the cantle back directly to the rawhide but it didn't take. There was a lot of cement, probably Barge, on both the cantle and the cantle back but it didn't stick and over time the cantle back worked up, toward the top edge of the cantle which lead to the cantle roll rolling forward into the top edge of the seat.

I'm thinking I need to put a filler piece on the back of the cantle, glue AND tack it into place then glue the cantle back to that and tack it down in the cantle gullet and in a couple of places on the top of the bars.

The cantle back with stick to the filler piece way better than it did to the bare rawhide covering the back of the cantle.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Bill

I would probably put a new cantle back on + filler + new cantle binding to get it back the way it should be ..

[gringobill]

Thanks Andy, I am going to try to reuse the original cantle back. it is basket stamped and has Oliver's cartouche on it. It is not in too bad shape. It is pretty supple and I pressed it flat by saddle soaping it and clamping it between some boards. It looks pretty good this morning. I have got the filler cut out and roughed up and one coat of Barge's on the inside. I think I will apply one more coat of cement before I soak and shape it. I feel pretty sure that once I get the filler attached well to the cantle that the cantle back will go back on good and will stay put.

I'll keep you posted.

Bill