Difference between Craftools and "more expensive" tools

[Sal]

I've been reading a lot lately about personal preferences of using tools such as those by Beard, Henley. King, etc., vs. Tandy's Craftools---but I'm not getting the actual reason why Tandy's are inferior to the others. What makes a $100.00 basketweave stamp better than a $5.00 basketweave stamp, or a $120.00 swivel knife/blade better than a $20.00 swivel knife/blade? I've been working with leather for over eight years (not long compared to most of you) and have used only Tandy's tools and I have received very gratifying praise from people I do work for. Am I really going to see a major improvement in my work if I spend more money on tools? If you think I will, whose tools will give me better results? I know I will receive differing opinions, but that's what I need.

Thanks. . . .

[TTcustom]

I've been reading a lot lately about personal preferences of using tools such as those by Beard, Henley. King, etc., vs. Tandy's Craftools---but I'm not getting the actual reason why Tandy's are inferior to the others. .... Am I really going to see a major improvement in my work if I spend more money on tools? If you think I will, whose tools will give me better results? I know I will receive differing opinions, but that's what I need.

Thanks. . . .

Zen and the Art of Leathercraft....

What is quality and how do you, I and they define it?

As someone that also uses mostly craftool and Hidecrafter tools with only a few B.K. tools I know what you are saying. First this is only my opinion and it is colored by severe OCD ways and faults. I also work with tools as a living so I know the cost of a long lasting quality tool that will give consistent results is higher than say a dollar store or Harbor freight tool. That being said, For the most part I am happy with the craft tool stamps. The people I make stuff for are happy with the product. That is all that matters. But I do use the Hidecrafter basketweaves and border tools and I have some Barry King tools, basketweaves and geometrics. There is a difference in these. The Hidecrafter shafts bend. Some people say theirs have broke mine hasn't. Barry's stamp is doing just fine. So basketweaves and borders these are the stamps I wish to stock with the non Craft tool variety. I don't think my cheapness would ever let me pay $100 for a stamp though, but who knows. I kind of think that like any other craft/ hobby there is some snobbery. "ooooh look I got a Binford 6000 Xtreme Titanium waddle slapper!" I see that there is an improvement in the quality of the stamping with some stamps to warrant the increased cost. There is a reason that pros use them and it isn't to show off.

Swivel knives, you really get what you pay for. Having a smooth turning and well fitted swivel knife is oh so sweet after using the rocks for bearings tandy beginner model. It seems insignificant but it has helped my knife work a lot to get one with a saddle that feels right to me. Having a blade that stays sharp longer and is easier to maintain would be nice but I get by fine with a middle of the $road blade. Stop, Stropping and rolling is part of the experience for me so I don't feel the value in paying for the more expensive blade, again that is me.

Edited October 13, 2009 by TTcustom

[Rawhide]

Sal,

You'll get a lot of pro and con answers here, but let me offer this. If you can't make decent products with craftools, more expensive tools won't help your tooling. Having said that, some of the more expensive tools aid in speed and crispness of tooling. They won't make you better as a tooler, but they'll make the job easier, in my opinion of course! I am a big fan of the Barry King line, and the Craft Japan line from Hidecrafters. See this thread and have a look at post #8. I try to show the difference in a Barry King geometric and a Tandy Geometric. I hit both with the same intensity (as close as I could measure by feel), and came up with the results you see. Here's the link.

[TTcustom]

never mind, as you were and carry on.

Seriously if you haven't read the book "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" you should. Your question gave me a flashback.

Edited October 13, 2009 by TTcustom

[bruce johnson]

Sal,

This is the difference -

[HARVEY]

I've been reading a lot lately about personal preferences of using tools such as those by Beard, Henley. King, etc., vs. Tandy's Craftools---but I'm not getting the actual reason why Tandy's are inferior to the others. What makes a $100.00 basketweave stamp better than a $5.00 basketweave stamp, or a $120.00 swivel knife/blade better than a $20.00 swivel knife/blade? I've been working with leather for over eight years (not long compared to most of you) and have used only Tandy's tools and I have received very gratifying praise from people I do work for. Am I really going to see a major improvement in my work if I spend more money on tools? If you think I will, whose tools will give me better results? I know I will receive differing opinions, but that's what I need.

Thanks. . . .

Hi, Sal.

You're going to get reasons and opinions and yeas and nays. But I think what the bottom line answer would be is: invest (or borrow if you can) 3-4-5 tools in the categories you would use most: basketweaves, camos, bevelers, whatever. If you can afford it, I'd say to you invest a hundred bucks in 2-3-4 tools and see how they feel and perform. Here online we can advise you from daybreak to sunset, but there's no substitute for trying them out yourself, in hand.

Good luck.

Harvey

Los Angeles

[HarryB]

Old computer saying: garbage in, garbage out. Also, old friend explained it this way: you can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t no matter how much salt and pepper you put in, how much mayo or pickles, its still chicken s**t! I've been to shows where individuals have shown all the tools they have made because they didn't have access to production tools. The time wasted in finding the parts and making some make-shift inferior quality tool could have been better spent walking to their nearest Tandy Leather Factory and buy what they needed. I realize that everyone doesn't have the bank account to afford a lot of expensive tools (me included!) but I will buy fewer better tools than spend my money on inferior tools. When I started leather work, not much besides Craftools were available, but, they were a lot better quality than what is available now. They used to be individually HAND ground and finished and made a very good impression. Over the years, well, you know the rest of the story (thank you, China). Also, we now have numerous tool makers that make it better for us from a variety and quality standpoint but you have to pay for what you get. Thanks to all you tool makers. You are filling a void that has needed filling for a long time.

[DaveT]

This is a VERY common question. I also used to answer it with "Craftools are good, and only a poor craftsman blames his tools." Then I went to work in a saddle shop. Just as when I was a professional Mechanic, I was using my tools to make my living. Craftools work well, but have limitations. Polishing and chrome round otherwise sharp edges and mask detail. I find this in basketweaves especially. A hand made tool with no chrome just makes a cleaner impression. As for durability... I bent and ruined a few of my craftool border stamps, by stamping a finished head stall while the customer waited. Yes, I could have soaked it, stamped it, then dried and oiled it again. The problem was the customer wanted it NOW. So one badly bent border and a tweaked basket stamp later, I bought some Barry King stamps. Never looked back.

As for swivel knives... As was pointed out, the bearings are smoother in the more expensive knives. The blades I use are the Henley, or the Al Stohlman HCS blades. Both are very high carbon steel blades that stay sharp a long time. As a pro that meant less time stropping and less frequent sharpening. More time carving equals more money. Same reason a mechanic buys and uses air tools and sockets, rather than using wrenches for everything.

Do you NEED the more expensive tools? Probably not. Unless you are making your living with them. Then I'd say you can build a cost benefit case in favor of them. I would go with the good knives and blades though. It will help keep your hand from cramping as much. BTW, I used a 3/8" straight blade, rather than an angle blade, because it gave me two cutting "ends" to work with. Half as much stropping.

Dave T.

[IHL]

In all honestly, there is no such thing as a cheap tool. You get what you pay for. If you are going to be selling your stamped leather products buy the best you can afford as it will show up in your products.

We all buy with price point in mind. Your 3 levels of auto tools would be as follows, Harbor Freight, Craftsman and Snap-on.

This is no different when it comes to leather tools in general. TLF i presume have their stamps die struck, well the stamp looks like it was the 12th million stamp that was struck by that same die. It has lost its sharpness, pattern etc and plated on top of that which reduces its non existant sharp lines and patterns which will show on the leather you are stamping. I have not used any of the middle of the road stamping tools as i was fortunate to be introduced to Robert's tools before i started buying. I only use RB Pro series tools and have no regrets paying the extra dollars for them, yes i could not get them all at once but worked real hard to get product out the door to be able to get more of the tools that i needed because of the job they did. The feel of the tool in your hand, the balanced weight, the crisp deep pattern gets the job done easier as mentioned in another post as well as Robert will custom make you stamps as well. My RB tools are handmade one at a time, will never bend or lose their value, guaranteed. You pay for that, no different than a Fiat and Ferrari and we can all see the differences there.

Enjoy

Ian

[Sal]

Thank you all very much. I am clearer on what defines a quality leather-working tool now. I don't know anyone in my area who would have the better tools to try them out (actually, I don't know anyone in my area who does leather work at all), but I feel more confident in paying the extra dollar to try a couple of them.

As always, this forum is the best teacher!