Roping Saddles...an evolution?

[Hennessy]

i've been in and around a few of the greenville tex mex saddleshops if'n they were in arizona[well nuff said] if theres a short cut to be had they've explored it,some are magnificent in their simplicity. most all of them seem to stay busy year round,mostly because ,the majority of buyers are buyin wholesale and that is a dog eat dog market where price wins out and quality is not what it appears to be..trees majority are mexico made,rawhide on good wood [i,ve had a few] quality questionable as to symentry,leather mexico or argentina again ok but questionable,hardware china or mexico, nails [american i think] screws i see a lot of sheetrock black metal [look em up in a few years ]indusive to corrosion of surrounding leather [not all but i've seen them used]stirrups mostly cover'd mexico.you cant put all the greenville shops in the same box but real quality people suffer in their efforts [shops too] because the rub comes when some good ol boy in spokane or edmonton or wherever seeks a good feelin saddle that appears to do all he wants,and pays out the nose for a so call'd shop name which in reality could have been one of a deal[buy two get one free] marketing ploy. i have seen many shop saddles where a nail driven down in the heart of the skirt[back cantle area] no foolin its common amongst the greenville saddlemakers.the short seats were here from the beginning when people rode to work every day, also there was'nt any mcdonalds or sonics aboot eh!the stirrups setting back ,i've seen ground seats with no leather stopper at lea channel back. tin and one piece of leather where the leathers will slide back under you.as a lad i observed [probably at the sat afternoon movies]some indians who were tryin to escape pursuit they went to draggin a shrub behind them on the ground covering their trail.we all know how to drag the brush ,me i like to paint with mine but when every penny counts and price demands thrift,well let me say this price no more sets quality but craftmanship does. seek and ye shall find,discuss and it will be built unto you and the horse comes first eh!

[hidepounder]

I can't believe I missed this post! The idea of cramming yourself into a saddle that is too small for you has been around for at least fifteen years now. I think it was Crates that came out with the "Beers Roper" which fitted you into a 14" seat when you should be riding a 15-1/2" seat. The concept was to compensate for a guy's inablility to ride his horse. Squeeze a guy into a small seat with a high cantle and he didn't have to think about falling off! Of course he never thought about learning to ride his horse in the first place or he wouldn't be looking for a gimmick to get by with. Guys bought them because it was easy to stand up, as Russ suggested. The problem, however, was that they could never sit back down in the saddle or get their feet back in front of them when they needed too. It's a great thing to be able to get forward coming out of the box and standing up to head, however, it is necessary to get back down in the saddle and get your feet forward again before you get hold on the steers head. A horse needs to be able to handle the weight of the steer with his hind end and most guys who are riding saddles which are too small are unable to sit back down and push to the back of the saddle. Consequently their feet are behind them which results in their weight being over the swells, whether they are standing or not. This causes your horse to be out of balance and forces him to take a hold of the steer with his front end. It's hard on the horse, it teaches him to drop his left shoulder, the rider is out of control and you have now greatly diminished your opportunity to handle the steer correctly. This just doesn't sound like a good thing to me!

Similarly when heeling, it is necessary to get to the back of the saddle upon delivery of the rope and the guy crammed into the saddle cannot do that. His weight is forward over the swells, which forces the horse to step forward and stop on his front end rather than stopping and handling the steer off his rear end. The more forward movement means more lost feet.

Another consequence of riding a seat which is too small is that when your body is out of balance over the front of your horse, the rider tends to compensate by using their feet. That results in a lot of undesired foot and leg signals. How many times have you seen a guy lose his temper at his horse because the horse kept moving forward......because the rider was unknowingly squeezing him forward in an effort to maintain his balance. It makes about as much sense as spurring your horse around the corner to a heel shot while you're hauling back on his face!

A good roping saddle gets your feet directly under you so that one has the ablity to ride down the arena with your weight on your feet and off of the seat, Now he can stand up and brace on the swells and then sit back down and push to the back of the saddle to help the horse to utilize his rear end. It is important to be able to do both. As far as I am concerned riding a saddle that is too small for you is nothing more than a sales gimmick that enabled guys who couldn't ride to compensate for not learning. You won't see any of the good rope horse trainers riding that way. The other thing to keep in mind is that there is a huge amount of roping talent out there and far less riding talent. These young guys today are so good with a rope that they can overcome their lack of riding skills but in the long run they are defeated by the guys that can ride. Lets face it....there are so many trully amazing ropers out there that the difference between winning and losing these days is in the roper's horse and his ablity to ride him. So I'll put my money in a saddle that fits me and allows me to stay out of my horse's way. He'll do his job if I let him.

The other thing that just amazes me is the number of guys riding poorly made trophy saddles that they won somewhere. They may feel good for a while but very few of them are quality saddles. I know my first trophy saddle came apart in the middle of a short round about six months after I won it. It was embarrassing, expensive, humiliating and my partner didn't speak to me for a week! In my opinion Cactus, Crates, Courts, HRS, Reinsman, Taylors, Martins, etc., are all entry level saddles. They are production saddles, many are made in the same shops and they are popular for their price which is around $2500. There is nothing wrong with them but don't expect them to last for a long time. Most ropers will not spend the money to buy a quality saddle. I think that is mostly out of ignorance. I would expect to pay $4500 to $7500 for a good quality roping saddle that you can expect to rope in safely for many years and not sore your horse. However, if you ride a roper outside you are probably going to be crippled at the end of the day. The saddle will hold up but your body won't. A roping saddle is not intended to be be ridden for an extended period of time. They are used for short periods of time and that is the very reason so many people can get away with using production saddles as oppossed to having to have a good saddle made.

Well that's my two cents worth and I guess I've spouted off about enough for now...

Bobby

[Ken Nelson]

I can't believe I missed this post! The idea of cramming yourself into a saddle that is too small for you has been around for at least fifteen years now. I think it was Crates that came out with the "Beers Roper" which fitted you into a 14" seat when you should be riding a 15-1/2" seat. The concept was to compensate for a guy's inablility to ride his horse. Squeeze a guy into a small seat with a high cantle and he didn't have to think about falling off! Of course he never thought about learning to ride his horse in the first place or he wouldn't be looking for a gimmick to get by with. Guys bought them because it was easy to stand up, as Russ suggested. The problem, however, was that they could never sit back down in the saddle or get their feet back in front of them when they needed too. It's a great thing to be able to get forward coming out of the box and standing up to head, however, it is necessary to get back down in the saddle and get your feet forward again before you get hold on the steers head. A horse needs to be able to handle the weight of the steer with his hind end and most guys who are riding saddles which are too small are unable to sit back down and push to the back of the saddle. Consequently their feet are behind them which results in their weight being over the swells, whether they are standing or not. This causes your horse to be out of balance and forces him to take a hold of the steer with his front end. It's hard on the horse, it teaches him to drop his left shoulder, the rider is out of control and you have now greatly diminished your opportunity to handle the steer correctly. This just doesn't sound like a good thing to me!

Similarly when heeling, it is necessary to get to the back of the saddle upon delivery of the rope and the guy crammed into the saddle cannot do that. His weight is forward over the swells, which forces the horse to step forward and stop on his front end rather than stopping and handling the steer off his rear end. The more forward movement means more lost feet.

Another consequence of riding a seat which is too small is that when your body is out of balance over the front of your horse, the rider tends to compensate by using their feet. That results in a lot of undesired foot and leg signals. How many times have you seen a guy lose his temper at his horse because the horse kept moving forward......because the rider was unknowingly squeezing him forward in an effort to maintain his balance. It makes about as much sense as spurring your horse around the corner to a heel shot while you're hauling back on his face!

A good roping saddle gets your feet directly under you so that one has the ablity to ride down the arena with your weight on your feet and off of the seat, Now he can stand up and brace on the swells and then sit back down and push to the back of the saddle to help the horse to utilize his rear end. It is important to be able to do both. As far as I am concerned riding a saddle that is too small for you is nothing more than a sales gimmick that enabled guys who couldn't ride to compensate for not learning. You won't see any of the good rope horse trainers riding that way. The other thing to keep in mind is that there is a huge amount of roping talent out there and far less riding talent. These young guys today are so good with a rope that they can overcome their lack of riding skills but in the long run they are defeated by the guys that can ride. Lets face it....there are so many trully amazing ropers out there that the difference between winning and losing these days is in the roper's horse and his ablity to ride him. So I'll put my money in a saddle that fits me and allows me to stay out of my horse's way. He'll do his job if I let him.

The other thing that just amazes me is the number of guys riding poorly made trophy saddles that they won somewhere. They may feel good for a while but very few of them are quality saddles. I know my first trophy saddle came apart in the middle of a short round about six months after I won it. It was embarrassing, expensive, humiliating and my partner didn't speak to me for a week! In my opinion Cactus, Crates, Courts, HRS, Reinsman, Taylors, Martins, etc., are all entry level saddles. They are production saddles, many are made in the same shops and they are popular for their price which is around $2500. There is nothing wrong with them but don't expect them to last for a long time. Most ropers will not spend the money to buy a quality saddle. I think that is mostly out of ignorance. I would expect to pay $4500 to $7500 for a good quality roping saddle that you can expect to rope in safely for many years and not sore your horse. However, if you ride a roper outside you are probably going to be crippled at the end of the day. The saddle will hold up but your body won't. A roping saddle is not intended to be be ridden for an extended period of time. They are used for short periods of time and that is the very reason so many people can get away with using production saddles as oppossed to having to have a good saddle made.

Well that's my two cents worth and I guess I've spouted off about enough for now...

Bobby

Mr. Park, Well put and I could not agree with you more. MY HAT IS OFF TO YOU, SIR!!!! Ken