Advice Needed On How To Tie Rigging To Cantle

[Priam1]

I have a few questions on building my first saddle. I'm at the point of fitting my rigging. I am building a rawhide tree with a 5 inch shovel cantle. I'm using the Stohlman books to build the seat up which I have done. I'm using a 3-way rigging plate--brass . My first question is 1) the Stohlman book shows that the ground seat is considerably built up and he actually notches out the back rigging into the seat at the junction of the seat/ bar as it joins the shovel cantle and it looks like he goes up about 1 1/2 inches). This is done in order to fit the leather rigging and making it flush with the thickness of the ground seat. My problem is that in shaving my fitted seat, I don't have nearly as thick a base (the amount of leather buildup) as Stohlman has. I'm afraid that I will not have enough of the leather rigging to make it flush with the rest of the ground seat contour and because I have it thinner, I'm afraid that in sinking the screws to hold the rigging in place, it will either be too thin or too thick. If too thick, that would mean that I would have to skive the leather to make it flush with the rest of the groundseat. Then the question comes up: A) what is the minimum thickness of the leather rigging in order NOT to compromise the strength of the saddle rigging. No one apparently addresses this. Put another way, how do you guys build up your Inskirt Riggings, and how do you tie into the ground seat/cantle juncture. How deep do you go in and where do you place your screws? How thick do you want your rigging in order to make sure that it does not stretch with stress?

[kseidel]

I have a few questions on building my first saddle. I'm at the point of fitting my rigging. I am building a rawhide tree with a 5 inch shovel cantle. I'm using the Stohlman books to build the seat up which I have done. I'm using a 3-way rigging plate--brass . My first question is 1) the Stohlman book shows that the ground seat is considerably built up and he actually notches out the back rigging into the seat at the junction of the seat/ bar as it joins the shovel cantle and it looks like he goes up about 1 1/2 inches). This is done in order to fit the leather rigging and making it flush with the thickness of the ground seat. My problem is that in shaving my fitted seat, I don't have nearly as thick a base (the amount of leather buildup) as Stohlman has. I'm afraid that I will not have enough of the leather rigging to make it flush with the rest of the ground seat contour and because I have it thinner, I'm afraid that in sinking the screws to hold the rigging in place, it will either be too thin or too thick. If too thick, that would mean that I would have to skive the leather to make it flush with the rest of the groundseat. Then the question comes up: A) what is the minimum thickness of the leather rigging in order NOT to compromise the strength of the saddle rigging. No one apparently addresses this. Put another way, how do you guys build up your Inskirt Riggings, and how do you tie into the ground seat/cantle juncture. How deep do you go in and where do you place your screws? How thick do you want your rigging in order to make sure that it does not stretch with stress?

Good questions for a beginner! I appreciate the fact that you are using the resources available and studying and doing your homework. You are right in that not everything is completely addressed. In the area of riggings, the leather fitted in front of and above the cantle end can be skived along the edges to blend into your ground seat without compromise. It is best if you plan for this when skiving your ground seat to leave enough thickness, but all is not lost. You do not need to extend up above the cantle end much, if any. It is best to go about 1/2" if possible, as this gives you a good place for a screw. In your case, go as high as you wish, and skive the rigging on the back side to blend in to your seat. Leave it full thickness from about 1/4" below the cantle. Be sure to put your screws into full thickness leather. They can be placed farther from the cantle. I will attach a sketch that may help.

As far as thickness for riggings, you want at least 10-12 oz. of full thickness. The edges can be skived and tapered to blend into your tree, seat and skirts, but must be full thickness where you attach with screws and nails. If your edge is fairly thin in the tab above and in front of the cantle, use short nails and nail the edge down to avoid curling up into your seat over time. Make your skive at the top edges along the swell and cantle short and steep to keep the as much of the the full thickness as possible as high as possible. Put the screws at least 3/8"-1/2" from edge of skive into the full thickness.

Respectfully,

Keith

[AndyKnight]

A) what is the minimum thickness of the leather rigging in order NOT to compromise the strength of the saddle rigging.

full thickness.

How deep do you go in and where do you place your screws?

usually a minimum of 1.5 '

it sounds like you didn't plan ahead when making your ground seat to allow for the thickness of your rigging insets. just install rigging and then smooth out groundseat with another piece of leather.

[Priam1]

Good questions for a beginner! Respectfully,

Keith

Hi Keith:

I understand exactly what you are talking about and I am very grateful for your response. For the record, I deviated somewhat from the Stohlman instructions for installing a ground seat. His was a full leather groundseat, I used a strainer for a portion. Since this was not to be a roping saddle, but more of a all around reiner style, I wanted to get as close a contact as possible. Therefore, I really enjoyed sculpting the seat to make it as comfortable as possible and of course as close to the tree as possible. Now--UNFORTUNATELY-- I know why Stohlman did it the way that he did. I'm going to have to get less serious about making this saddle and accept the fact that it will not be perfect when I get done. For reasons that I am not aware of, I don't want there to be any mistakes--which is utterly irrational. The reality is that one can't learn if you don't make mistakes. At least that is what I tell people about training horses--mistakes are good. The moral of this is that novices should not try to be too creative--its dangerous!!!!! Thanks again for helping me out. I owe you.

[Priam1]

it sounds like you didn't plan ahead when making your ground seat to allow for the thickness of your rigging insets. just install rigging and then smooth out groundseat with another piece of leather.

Andy: You are absolutely correct. And thank you for the reply. I really never thought about it. The instructions said to sculpt the ground seat to the point where it feels good to the rider--no bulges or dips or angles that might get in the way of a comfortable seat. I don't recall him saying that you have to make sure that you have enough leather in order to make your rigging flush. From my perspective, I wanted the the seat at the inside thighs to be narrow and then flow out somewhat flat at the juncture of the bars and the seat--to pre-empt the log seat that riders complain about. In doing so, I wanted as little leather there as possible. I'm sure the reason it wasn't mentioned is because the author thought the reader would have enough common sense to anticipate that especially when he literally has a picture of cutting that built up area out to receive the rear rigging--well of course he was wrong.

In addition, you mention that it should be full thickness. Well my rear inskirt rigging leather thickness at the junction of the bars and cantle will be 10/64ths (5/32). This does not really sound very substantial to me. Stohlman builds his inskirt rigging and doubles up the leather from the front rigging to about 4 inches before connecting to the rear bar/cantle seat. but does not go all the way up. I am assuming that he installs this insert in order to give more stiffness to the rigging, but I'm curious if there is a reason why he does not just go the whole distance to the rigging screws. This would make for a stronger rigging wouldn't it? It would also minimize the possibility of stretching wouldn't it? Am I missing another important point that will bite me in the near future? Furthermore, would it be too thick and "lumpy" and interfere with the lay of my rear seat jockeys if I do not let it be thinner in this area?