Several Dye Tests, Same Problem. What Am I Doing Wrong?

[NewYorkerInSydney]

Hi friends,

I posted this in the dye forum and someone just told me I should post it over in this forum instead. Hopefully someone can help.I have been trying to learn to dye leather unsuccessfully so far. Here is what I have: strips of 5oz natural looking, undyed, horse butt leather. It has not been oiled or washed or anything and looks in excellent condition. Came to me the way I got it from the supplier just like all the tooling leather. It is VERY stiff, almost as stiff as a board and I have Fiebings professional oil dye in saddle tan.

Here is what I have done with the small strips for testing I have cut out of the horse butt piece:

Strip 1: Plain horse butt dipped into the saddle tan oil a couple of times and let it soak just a tiny bit. After about 24 hours I have buffed in gentle circles with a soft cloth and noticed the dye faded and you can slightly see the original color of the horse butt through the faded dye.

Strip 2: Saturated the strip in water for a few moments, til damp but not soaking wet, then immediately dipped in the oil dye a couple of times and let is soak just a tiny bit. After 24 hours it probably even more stiff than before. I buffed and same problem as above occured. Faded and original color showing through

Strip 3: Saturated the strip in water for a few moments til damp but not soaking wet, then dipped in Neatsfoot oil for a moment and allowed to drip dry. After 24 hours it is much softer than original which is good. I proceeded to dye it in the same method as above. After another 24 hours I buffed it and same fading issue as above has occured.

Strip 4. similar to strip one except I conditioned it with Lexol as the very last step. That further faded the dye and made the whole strip look terrible.

Now, I am not rubbing vigorously and am using a soft cloth. Anyone have any idea what the problem is? There is nothing on the leather, no coating of any kind, it is plain and ready for tooling or whatever someone wants to do with it. Please help.

Thanks so much,

Jade

Edited March 10, 2010 by NewYorkerInSydney

[Denster]

Horse hide does not take dye well with the exception of black and then with difficulty. From your description of the hide it sounds like it is hard jacked which makes it even more difficult.

[Luke Hatley]

I M H O .....I think you need to talk to the company you bought the Horse Hide from.

they should be able to tell you what is WRONG.............

Edited March 11, 2010 by Luke Hatley

[NoahL]

Are you seeing the fading throughout the piece of leather, or is it getting a "veiny" look to it where it is fading? My horsehide may lighten some with buffing, but not enough to notice, and if it did, I would just give it a second coat of dye. That "veiny" look, however, does tend to happen on all of the horsehide I have used--they are natural defects and stretch marks that don't take dye as well as the surrounding leather, so unless you dye heavily with a dark color, they show up slightly lighter, and I like the look, personally.

~Noah

[NewYorkerInSydney]

Are you seeing the fading throughout the piece of leather, or is it getting a "veiny" look to it where it is fading? My horsehide may lighten some with buffing, but not enough to notice, and if it did, I would just give it a second coat of dye. That "veiny" look, however, does tend to happen on all of the horsehide I have used--they are natural defects and stretch marks that don't take dye as well as the surrounding leather, so unless you dye heavily with a dark color, they show up slightly lighter, and I like the look, personally.

~Noah

Thanks guys for your responses.

And Noah, it's not veiny, just faded looking. Something about it reminds me of static. The fading is all throughout not any specific spots.

This hide looks so nice too. Almost perfect with the exception of it being so stiff and not the fading. I dont know what else to do.

Jade

[Denster]

Jade

The problem is penetration. Horse hide is dense by it's nature. The horse butts that are available are generally either soft jacked which will feel about like firm cowhide and hard jacked which is very stiff. Jacking is rolling the leather between plates which compresses it and makes it even denser ie: hard for liquid to penetrate. You might try conditioning the surface with alcohol and dip dying it for an extended period but if you are looking for the same results you can get with cowhide I fear you will be dissapointed.

[NewYorkerInSydney]

Jade

The problem is penetration. Horse hide is dense by it's nature. The horse butts that are available are generally either soft jacked which will feel about like firm cowhide and hard jacked which is very stiff. Jacking is rolling the leather between plates which compresses it and makes it even denser ie: hard for liquid to penetrate. You might try conditioning the surface with alcohol and dip dying it for an extended period but if you are looking for the same results you can get with cowhide I fear you will be dissapointed.

Hello Denster,

Oh I see. If what you say is true, then that is disappointing. What do I do with all this leather now? I have 4 long horse butt strips. I have never heard of jacking till now and after reading your description, I would say this butt is "hard jacked" cause if I hold the piece flat with one hand, nearly the whole three foot long piece hardly bends. LOL. I don't just a little leather experience, but I have never seen anything like this before. Hmm, I may do a few more tests then and see if I come up with something that may work for me, but somehow I am doubting it at this point.

As a result of this, I would like to try my hand at buying plain pink looking cowhide, the kind most of you guys use for tooling. I would like it in the 4-5 oz range so that I can make the belts and cuff bands that I have in mind. See, I would like to dye leather. My experience thus far has been with chrome tanned leather that is all ready to go. I'd like to dye leather different colors and experiment with that. I see there are several leather stores around, but anyone in particular I should go to to purchase this leather in several square feet. I'd like some nice stuff that will dye well. I don't have any Tandys nearby and would rather use someone else frankly. What is that leather called for tooling? What should I ask for? I REALLY appreciate all of your help. Thanks SO much.

-Jade in Australia

[Denster]

Jade

What you are looking for is vegtable tanned leather. If you are only looking to buy a few sqft and not a whole side give Kevin at Springfield Leather a call he will cut leather to the size you want without making you pay an arm and a leg. For belts you can buy them allready cut in various widths. In any case give Kevin a call or email. Sprinfield is one of the advertisers on this site.

As to the horsehide. A good dip in neetsfoot oil will turn it a rich brown color that makes a really nice belt. Once it has had its dip and a good finish applied the hard jacked stuff makes a sturdy belt that would be hard to wear out.

[NewYorkerInSydney]

Jade

What you are looking for is vegtable tanned leather. If you are only looking to buy a few sqft and not a whole side give Kevin at Springfield Leather a call he will cut leather to the size you want without making you pay an arm and a leg. For belts you can buy them allready cut in various widths. In any case give Kevin a call or email. Sprinfield is one of the advertisers on this site.

As to the horsehide. A good dip in neetsfoot oil will turn it a rich brown color that makes a really nice belt. Once it has had its dip and a good finish applied the hard jacked stuff makes a sturdy belt that would be hard to wear out.

Thanks so much for the advice mate. I am going to contact Kevin and have a chat with him. I appreciate you taking the time to assist me. And I am going to try what you say with the horsehide and go from there. I am so pleased with your helpfulness.

Take care.

Jade

[cem]

Jade if you are in Sydney try Birdsall Leather they will have what you are looking for, It will be expensive to ship leather from America. Also just wondering where did you get the horse hide from as there aren't many places in Oz that stock it.

Cheers,

Clair