Rex Riveter Question

[Kate]

I'v ehad a very old Rex Riveter for ages - cute little thing in great shape, other than missing about 80% of its Japanned finish.... oh, and there's a spring loaded tube on the bottom the appears to be missing somethign - and I have no clue what.

Anybody out there able to tell me what goes into that open tube? The upper piston has a splash shape to it, so my first guess is some sort of brass anvil thingy goes in the bottom, but I have never actually seen one of these things in use!

Oh, and I also have an even older similar machine, made to be wall mounted. It looks like it needs a piece that sticks on the upper ram - but I'll have to get pics of that one, as it's hard to explain.

I'll be back later on, with that!

[bruce johnson]

Kate,

I have a couple of them sitting around here. An old guy told me that they originally were mostly used for auto repair. They were used to rivet the replacement bands into the brake systems of old Fords about 90 years ago. They had a tubular rivet setup and you dropped the rivet into the spring loaded tube on the bottom. Push the handle and it set the rivet against the splash on top. That would explain why they are so common, this was almost a DIY project back in the day apparently and about everybody had one.

I have never pursued it, but a while back someone mentioned you might can get get a top anvil from Beilers that will split the rivet into the six part star. I have started the tubular rivets with the Rex, and then finished them off with the hand tool that makes the star. It worked OK for no more of those than I do.

[Kate]

Hey Bruce,

Well, that makes sense, but the hole in the lower tube is like half an inch deep - makes me think there was an insert of some type. I have worked with some of the old riveted brake setups - ugh.... yes, I'm old, and USED to be a mechanic of sorts (runs in the family, for better or worse). The band brakes etc would still need to have a more or less flush surface - ie, rivet set into a hole in the liner, below the friction surface.

I'm thinking maybe I'll make up an anvil from a chunk of brass and see if it will press the little light tubular rivets - tired of smacking my poor old arthritic thumbs!

STill got to get a pic of the other thing - it's really pretty neat (for a boat anchor

Kate

[ryano]

Hey Bruce,

Well, that makes sense, but the hole in the lower tube is like half an inch deep - makes me think there was an insert of some type. I have worked with some of the old riveted brake setups - ugh.... yes, I'm old, and USED to be a mechanic of sorts (runs in the family, for better or worse). The band brakes etc would still need to have a more or less flush surface - ie, rivet set into a hole in the liner, below the friction surface.

I'm thinking maybe I'll make up an anvil from a chunk of brass and see if it will press the little light tubular rivets - tired of smacking my poor old arthritic thumbs!

STill got to get a pic of the other thing - it's really pretty neat (for a boat anchor

Kate

The long tube is where you put the rivet, head first. NO INSERT. The tube is spring loaded and holds the rivet upright. The anvil is at the top and comes down when you push the handle down, hitting the rivet and splashing the end of the rivet. It uses the 104 rivets that Weaver's sell. No holes need to be punched first, the rivets are self-piercing.

These Rex Riveters are for leather, not brake shoes. People had them to repair harness. Brake shoe riveters are of a different design.

Edited March 23, 2010 by ryano

[Kate]

The long tube is where you put the rivet, head first. NO INSERT. The tube is spring loaded and holds the rivet upright. The anvil is at the top and comes down when you push the handle down, hitting the rivet and splashing the end of the rivet. It uses the 104 rivets that Weaver's sell. No holes need to be punched first, the rivets are self-piercing.

These Rex Riveters are for leather, not brake shoes. People had them to repair harness. Brake shoe riveters are of a different design.

Well, that's gonna have to be a long rivet, and there's going to be about a half inch of rivet stem between the leather and the cap - because that little anvil bar on the top that the handle actuates does NOT fit inside the tube - no way, no how. SOMETHING has to have been in the tube to space it up to the depth of a rivet's cap, if that's how it was working......

OK, second iron critter pics. This one is supposed to be wall or post mounted, and evidently had some sort of fitting on the ram - the splash anvil is threaded and screws up to adjust from the bottom for depth. No markings of any kind on the casting, machining is fair, casting is only so-so as to finishing.

It was really REALLY cruddy and oily and rusty, so I steel brushed heck out of it and shot it with some paint to stop the rust down a little bit. That way it won't get my coat yucky if I use it for a hat rack

So, Ryano, got any ideas on this one? I'm clueless

Kate

[tonyc1]

The long tube is where you put the rivet, head first. NO INSERT. The tube is spring loaded and holds the rivet upright. The anvil is at the top and comes down when you push the handle down, hitting the rivet and splashing the end of the rivet. It uses the 104 rivets that Weaver's sell. No holes need to be punched first, the rivets are self-piercing.

These Rex Riveters are for leather, not brake shoes. People had them to repair harness. Brake shoe riveters are of a different design.

I agree with what Ryano has said. I've had this old rivet press for43 years and I have only used it for setting bifurcated rivets as in the picture. I rarely use these rivets but sometimes have to.

Tony.

[bruce johnson]

Ryan,

The anvils on both of the riveters I have now just have the center post and the trough all the way around. When I try to set the self piercing tubular rivets, they pierce alright. The problem is that they will roll a little bit into the trough, kind of like a an eyelet but not that much of a rim. It doesn't split the clinch at all. Sound right? Or are there rivets that are scored or something to split and I had "rollers" instead of "splitters"?

About the only time I use these are a repair on something that the other rivets are split into the six legs that roll and clinch. I stick the tubular rivet into the Rex and press just enough for it penetrate the leather. Then I take it out and split and finish it with the hand tool that splits the tube on an anvil. I can punch a hole and just use the handtool, but I don't have that little plug of leather in the pivet center and it looks odd.

[ryano]

Kate,

Yes the tube is pretty long to accomodate 9/16 long rivets. The driver does not fit into this tube, it pushes the tube down rather empty or with material between it. If you put a shorter rivet into the tube, lets say a 1/4 long, the driver will push the tube down and still hit the shorter rivet. The tube should push down for enough to be at the same level as the casting. If it doesn't, rust or crud is stopping it.

The wall mount riveter you have is for brake linings.

Bruce,

The older style rivet drivers just rolled the edges of the rivet over like an eyelet. The newer drivers have 6 circular drill marks in them to splash the rivet into 6 splits and roll them over. The reason for this is it takes less presser to "splash the rivet." Weaver's sells the newer replacement drivers for the Rex riveters for around 14 bucks to splash the rivet.

[bruce johnson]

Ryan,

Thanks for the info. Both of the ones I have now are Rex 27s and I haven't run across any with the 6 point anvils. Then again they have been with old groups of tools sold as a lot. I'll get a 6 point to fill out an order so I can have that setup next time I order.

Another question on the mechanical side. I had never really done any checking into the Rex 27. Last night I ran across a Model T forum and a few other places that they talked about the Rex 27 being used for brakes. On one forum they were using them for the old Ford tractors too - 8N, 9N, and some others. Did Rex have a different riveter design for brakes back in the day, and now they are making do with the 27?

[Kate]

Kate,

Yes the tube is pretty long to accomodate 9/16 long rivets. The driver does not fit into this tube, it pushes the tube down rather empty or with material between it. If you put a shorter rivet into the tube, lets say a 1/4 long, the driver will push the tube down and still hit the shorter rivet. The tube should push down for enough to be at the same level as the casting. If it doesn't, rust or crud is stopping it.

The wall mount riveter you have is for brake linings.

Bruce,

The older style rivet drivers just rolled the edges of the rivet over like an eyelet. The newer drivers have 6 circular drill marks in them to splash the rivet into 6 splits and roll them over. The reason for this is it takes less presser to "splash the rivet." Weaver's sells the newer replacement drivers for the Rex riveters for around 14 bucks to splash the rivet.

Now, that's great info Ryano, THANK YOU! I'll have to play around with that riveter a bit and see how it works. The post mount tool for brake linings - did the top part (ram) have a collared insert that clipped on via the (bent) through pin? I'd love to have this thing have a real job, other than looking novel - don't need any more bookends.

Bruce, I found the splash parts as a hand tool at Brettuns Village site

http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/tools/tools.html#rivetsetters

Those are pretty darn cute! and not badly priced at all.

Thanks for all the valuable info, again,

Kate

[ryano]

Bruce and Kate,

Short on time here, but wanted to let you know to take your riveter apart first to see how it connects up top by the handle. There were 2 different kinds made. One anvil is threaded and the other one isn't. I will take some pictures of the different styles of riveters later tonight.

Kate, something can be done with your wall mounted riveter so you can use it. I will explain later. Gotta go.

[ryano]

Hello,

I have been super busy the past couple of days and have not had time to post any pictures of the different anvils. It should calm down by the end of the week.

The pictures will answer the question about the Model T riveter. Because the Rex riveter with the tube and the upper drive anvil is not the correct riveter to set the rivets for brake linings. Here is an ebay link to the correct hand operated riveter for brake linings. It allows the rivet to be set below the surface of the brake lining:

http://cgi.ebay.com/lg-old-vintage-acme-riveter-farm-leather-rivet-tool_W0QQitemZ120537892643QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFolk_Art?hash=item1c109e4723

[cdthayer]

Wow, thanks for the information on these old riveters. I have had a REX 27 that came off of the ranch where my family pioneered, but I never knew what kind of rivets that it takes. I was led to believe that it was for brake linings. I just bought a hand riveter this month for the first tube rivets that I've ever needed to set, so I've never had any around.

I picked up another REX 27 in an auction last year, along with a Pomeroy that is very similar. I included some quick snapshots of them, and the information cast into them is:

REX - 27 - Pat Oct 9 1900

The Gem Set - Patd Mar 9 09 - N.C. Pomeroy - Inventor

I wonder if the Gem Set riveter is designed for the same type rivet? The tubes and anvils look the same size.

Now maybe I can get some rivets (5/16" Head, 1/8" tube) and put my family's old REX 27 back into use at my shop.

CD in Oklahoma

thayerrags.com

[ryano]

CD,

The riveters take the #1(104) rivets which have a 5/16 head and a .140" body. I would use brass or chrome brass rivets. They are available from Weaver's, Beiler's and many more places. This is the standard size rivet for leather. You can still use the 1/8" rivets if you like though. Just a little FYI.

[cdthayer]

The riveters take the #1(104) rivets which have a 5/16 head and a .140" body....use brass or chrome brass rivets. ....the standard size rivet for leather.....can still use the 1/8" rivets if you like .....

Thanks Ryano. That helps me learn more about rivets. Looks like some places have small assortments too. I won't set very many in my line of work, but they come in handy once in a while.

The old REX 27 pictured above cleaned up pretty good with a wire brush and sewing machine oil. I'll just need to wipe it down a few more times to get all of the excess oil off of it before I get it close to anything. It'll probably be dried out enough before I get some rivets and have a need for it down the road.

CD in Oklahoma

thayerrags.com

[Kate]

<SNIP>

Kate, something can be done with your wall mounted riveter so you can use it. I will explain later. Gotta go.

Resurrecting the thread to go in another direction -

I have figured out something ELSE for the wall mounted riveter to do as a second career. BUT, I need to figure out an oddball thread pattern first.

In looking for a more efficient way to punch a LOT of holes (nearly 900 of them, to be accurate - centered on straps and evenly spaced, no less - big commission job) I have gone from

A: OMG, this is going to make me CRAZY doing this much - and I'll waste a lot of leather in the process

to

B: WOW!!! look at that cranked automatic hole puncher in Weaver's equipment list! works just like a sewing machine, and man is it cool - but it's $1500 all told. NOT gonna happen.....

to

C: OK there is the foot press too, that could be ordered up with stuff to do the job - still be eyeballing spacing, but a finger jig would solve most of that, strap guide is an easy thing to do - BUT that's still coming in at over $500 to get set up.

THEN I had a brainstorm (well, OK, tempest in a teacup is more like it, with my brain, but whatever.

The wall mounted press - anvil will screw down to accept either a half-inch dia. brass anvil, OR a hard leather pad,

AND the gap at bottom of stroke is "just about right" to accept the punch tubes from my little Maxi Punch set (ooollldie, Tandy part #1770, back when they were made in JAPAN out of pretty decent steel).

Now the fun part - thread on the punch tubes seemingly specs out as 10mm x 1.0 mm - NOT standard metric. It does seem to be kinda standard for bicycles (axle and chainstack nuts) and some brakeline nuts on ebay GB. I have an old junker bike, tried that axle nut from it last night - nope, only runs about two threads in and sticks - NOT a 1.0mm pitch. Can't find doggone micrometer to measure diameter for certain. Looked again at thread pitch under strong light/strong glass with the thread gauge, and yes, that part IS 1.0mm. Need to find micrometer....

What I'd love to know (before ordering in this size nut to attach to the ram of the press) is if I am actually REALLY looking at a 10mm x 1.0 mm thread on the punch tubes.

Are there any machinist types out there who have one of these little MAxi Punch sets to check it out? If I can just stick one of those big axle nuts onto the tip of the press ram, I am home to glory. Well, sort of

Kate

[Art]

Hi Kate,

Go to a bike shop, if I remember correctly, the 1mm pitch was used on 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 14, and 15mm diameters for darned everything on the bike. Anyway, they may have a tap and die set with those sizes, and you can use the dies as a screw check device to ascertain the actual size. Crazy thing was, all the Italian stuff was SAE. Japanese and Chinese stuff was always metric.

Art

Resurrecting the thread to go in another direction -

I have figured out something ELSE for the wall mounted riveter to do as a second career. BUT, I need to figure out an oddball thread pattern first.

In looking for a more efficient way to punch a LOT of holes (nearly 900 of them, to be accurate - centered on straps and evenly spaced, no less - big commission job) I have gone from

A: OMG, this is going to make me CRAZY doing this much - and I'll waste a lot of leather in the process

to

B: WOW!!! look at that cranked automatic hole puncher in Weaver's equipment list! works just like a sewing machine, and man is it cool - but it's $1500 all told. NOT gonna happen.....

to

C: OK there is the foot press too, that could be ordered up with stuff to do the job - still be eyeballing spacing, but a finger jig would solve most of that, strap guide is an easy thing to do - BUT that's still coming in at over $500 to get set up.

THEN I had a brainstorm (well, OK, tempest in a teacup is more like it, with my brain, but whatever.

The wall mounted press - anvil will screw down to accept either a half-inch dia. brass anvil, OR a hard leather pad,

AND the gap at bottom of stroke is "just about right" to accept the punch tubes from my little Maxi Punch set (ooollldie, Tandy part #1770, back when they were made in JAPAN out of pretty decent steel).

Now the fun part - thread on the punch tubes seemingly specs out as 10mm x 1.0 mm - NOT standard metric. It does seem to be kinda standard for bicycles (axle and chainstack nuts) and some brakeline nuts on ebay GB. I have an old junker bike, tried that axle nut from it last night - nope, only runs about two threads in and sticks - NOT a 1.0mm pitch. Can't find doggone micrometer to measure diameter for certain. Looked again at thread pitch under strong light/strong glass with the thread gauge, and yes, that part IS 1.0mm. Need to find micrometer....

What I'd love to know (before ordering in this size nut to attach to the ram of the press) is if I am actually REALLY looking at a 10mm x 1.0 mm thread on the punch tubes.

Are there any machinist types out there who have one of these little MAxi Punch sets to check it out? If I can just stick one of those big axle nuts onto the tip of the press ram, I am home to glory. Well, sort of

Kate

[Kate]

Bruce and Kate,

Short on time here, but wanted to let you know to take your riveter apart first to see how it connects up top by the handle. There were 2 different kinds made. One anvil is threaded and the other one isn't. I will take some pictures of the different styles of riveters later tonight.

Kate, something can be done with your wall mounted riveter so you can use it. I will explain later. Gotta go.

Hey Ryan, How DO you take out the anvil of my oldie Rex Riveter? It appears to be the type that the anvil screws into that press block part the handle actually pushes on. At least, when I gently tried to unwind it using pump pliers, it *did* wind down a bit - must be a pretty fine thread, it took a few turns to see daylight.

I am not seeing an obvious way to get this taken apart - the pivot rod the handle works on is not a bolt or pinned rod, it looks to be peened over on both ends. I could just grind it off, I suppose, but then would have to do the punch-setting thing to keep it in there after reassembly... assuming the NEW Rex riveter splash anvil will fit this OLD one.

Weaver's Heritage riveter appears to be a copy of the old style Rex tool, the new Rex is way different.

Oh, and the wall mounted critter is in middle of fab work. Making it a set of bushings and a drive cap to use it as a press punch with the old Tandy Maxi Punch set. Decided to not destroy the original ram by grinding out a punch clearing slot.

[GunNut]

This is one heck of a thread. I just won one of these old setters on ebay for $15. I can't wait for it to come in so I can see which anvils it has. This place is a fount of knowledge! Thanks!