Tippmann Aerostitch Problem (Not Making Stitch)

[Denster]

W&C is good leather but I know what you mean with Hermann Oak that's all I use for holsters anymore. Speaking of holsters I see you over on the concealed carry forum a lot also checked out your site. You make some pretty nice holsters.

[luke213]

W&C is good leather but I know what you mean with Hermann Oak that's all I use for holsters anymore. Speaking of holsters I see you over on the concealed carry forum a lot also checked out your site. You make some pretty nice holsters.

Thanks sir;) I'm around a couple of the difference concealed carry sites, Defensive carry some, WeTheArmed allot(I actually sponsor that one) and a few others. I've been lucky to have some really good guys who have loved the holsters I've built for them so the majority of my work has been word of mouth and it sure has been keeping me busy:) I'm hoping to save some time with the Aerostitch and get to the point where I get days off again:) We shall see though, for only really opening up orders for the last few months I'm actually surprised as how my customer base has grown. It's been keeping me busy and I love my job so I can't complain;) The guys out there carrying in my gear seem to like it as well since I've had quite a few guys order one, like it and come back and order a couple for other guns in their collection so it's been good. But like I said I think one of the best bits is the customers, I think this market, carry and guns brings out some of the best and most interesting people you could meet:)

I also love being able to provide gear that makes guys carry more often, I figure anything I can do to get more guys carrying every single day is a better world for all of us. That's my little feel good about what I do for a living now, my wife goes to work and fixes people(she's a nurse) and I just make sure people have the gun there when they really need it to protect good people;)

Take care!

Luke

[luke213]

Well I wanted to update everyone and ask a few more questions;)

I've gotten it working, lots of fiddling with tension and my needle bar(I think that's the proper name) was sticking. Either way I got that straight and got the new presser foot and now I'm stitching;)

Here is one of my test strips that I did to ask another question. I'm having some trouble on the start and finish bits. I've watched the Tippmann videos and it says to go over the first couple stitches and I can do that, looks fair to decent from the top(will get better I'm sure with time). But the back it not looking good.

How can I fix this back. Or more aptly how can I start and stop a stitch better to the point where it will look good. This IMHO isn't good enough at all:) That though is why I have 6 more weeks before I need to produce with this machine and plenty of scrap material to test on. I do appreciate all the help getting to this stage;)

One other question, when I spoke to Tom at Tippmann he informed me that he can't get the 230S needles anymore, anyone know somewhere else to get them?

Thanks again!

Luke

[Denster]

Luke

Weaver's has the Smetz 230S needles. On the stitching it's looking pretty good except for the start and stop points and the open holes. Couple of tricks. First do you have the needle positioning switch on your machine? I don't recall if you said or not. Anyway I rarely backstitch. I plan my stitch runs so that I oversew about four stitches on the periphery of the holster. When I absolutely have to I start two stitches in the opposite direction I want to go then raise the presser foot and turn the holster around position the needle in the first hole and off we go at the end I raise the presser foot and back up one stitch lower it put the machine in reverse and sew a couple. Comes out cleaner that way. Once I'm done stitching I lightly case both sides of the stitchline and put the front side on my marble slab and tap the back with my cobbler's hammer. This closes the stitch holes and gets rid of any marks. John Bianchi uses a smooth metal roller to do the same either works.

[luke213]

Luke

Weaver's has the Smetz 230S needles. On the stitching it's looking pretty good except for the start and stop points and the open holes. Couple of tricks. First do you have the needle positioning switch on your machine? I don't recall if you said or not. Anyway I rarely backstitch. I plan my stitch runs so that I oversew about four stitches on the periphery of the holster. When I absolutely have to I start two stitches in the opposite direction I want to go then raise the presser foot and turn the holster around position the needle in the first hole and off we go at the end I raise the presser foot and back up one stitch lower it put the machine in reverse and sew a couple. Comes out cleaner that way. Once I'm done stitching I lightly case both sides of the stitchline and put the front side on my marble slab and tap the back with my cobbler's hammer. This closes the stitch holes and gets rid of any marks. John Bianchi uses a smooth metal roller to do the same either works.

Good info all around thanks;)

When you say oversew are you saying that you run back over your start point. Say making a square or circle, coming back to where your first stitches are and running over 3-4 of them to lock the end? I assume that's what your saying, I had tried that with better results also I'm just thinking on my normal popular rig the Texas holster I've got stop points where the clips are on either side of the rig, for the rest of it I can over-run but in two places I'm going to have to figure out a start like this;)

One other rather odd question, lockstitch and it's strength vs. handstitch. I know hand stitch is stronger but what about laying two lockstitches in every hole, it seems to me that would be as good or better than running a double stitch where they are separate. I'm just kinda brainstorming here but I've been trying to think of a way to make the lockstitch even stronger.

Thanks again!

Luke

[Denster]

Luke

That is exactly what I meant by overstitch. As to making the lockstitch stronger with 277 or 346 thread there really is no point. The thread is all ready stronger than the leather and the likelyhood of it wearing through in anyplace in the life of the holster is virtually nill. I've never understood the point in double stitch lining holsters other than for looks as there is no practical purpose to it. Anyone that disagrees feel free to chime in.

[luke213]

Luke

That is exactly what I meant by overstitch. As to making the lockstitch stronger with 277 or 346 thread there really is no point. The thread is all ready stronger than the leather and the likelyhood of it wearing through in anyplace in the life of the holster is virtually nill. I've never understood the point in double stitch lining holsters other than for looks as there is no practical purpose to it. Anyone that disagrees feel free to chime in.

That makes sense and I hadn't really thought about it in that manner as far as the leather going before the thread. I guess I was focused on abrading the thread or it being cut and unraveling, because I know how difficult it is to remove a saddle stitch and lock isn't easy but it's certainly easier than saddle stitch to remove. Either way I'm not too worried about it just was wondering if anyone else had any ideas, I guess I could have worded it as a way to stop unraveling. I guess if we overstitch to lock out stitching double stitching on top seems to me like it would lock every stitch so to speak, but I admit that it wouldn't look very good aesthetically. Either way just a brainstorm of sorts;)

So I took your advice and I think I improved.

I actually broke the top thread at about the half-way point and that's why there are two spots with overstitch. I used a small flat headed hammer to tap the threads after lightly casing the leather and it looks like it removed nearly all the marks from the foot(well I also took the foot and filed off the sharp edges then buffed it with 2000 grit wet paper). I missed my groove at one spot but I think it's an improvement.

Any suggestions as always are appreciated:)

Oh and I forgot to mention I know my tension was a little tight on the needle side I didn't notice till half way through, and I've been fighting with tension quite a bit. Actually that's another question in itself. I seem to have too much top tension but it's nearly completely off. I've double checked that it's threaded per the manual and I'm really lost. Basically to get it to work properly tension wise the primary and secondary have to be at around 1/2 turn(rather than 1.5 and 2), and the bobbin tension is actually not 1lb. or so of pull I would guess I'm running like 3lbs. just to try and get some adjustment to the top side of the system. If I'm understanding the mechanics of the operation getting the bobbin down to 1lb. of pull would require even looser tension on top(which of course you can't get when you're as far adjusted as it goes). How much tension should I have on the top thread is lbs? When pulling through the needle for instance? Just trying to get a ballpark because I suspect my problem is something either in one of the tensioners is wonky or perhaps I'm threading it wrong despite reading and watching the video's.

Thanks again for all the help:)

Luke

[Denster]

Luke

I'm guessing you are using bonded nylon thread. That is one of the reasons I switched to poly in both the Aero and the Boss is it runs through the machine so much smoother. There are a few tricks you can use with nylon. First in any case make sure your tensioner shafts are lubed. You can lube your thread either with one of the lube pots Weaver or Tippmann sells or you can just spritz your thread spool with silicon periodically. Also on your secondary tensioner don't loop the thread around the shaft but just bring it in the back side then loop around the primary. Tippmann used to show this in some of their threading illustrations in the manual and it is usefull with the heavier threads particularly nylon. Or you can just switch to poly, I get mine from weaver and it is generally pre lubed. I use 346 top and 277 bottom and stitch at 4&1/2 to 5 spi. I llike a plump stitch and this looks nice front and back.

Your stitching is looking pretty good just keep practicing and you will get the feel for it locked in.

[Denster]

Luke

One other trick I use. I use my aerostitch for belts and sewing in liners, particularly in western holsters, where the extra throat depth is handy. On this stuff I don't gouge a stitch groove but crease it in. Then if I loose my focus and get a bit out of the crease it just disappears when I case and tap my stitches and no one is he wiser. Most other holster work I do on the Boss and it almost impossible to miss the groove so I gouge those in.

[suem]

This is a little off topic but relevant to the machine. I take it this is not made anymore? What a fantastic idea, a pneumatic sewing machine. I guess if I want one it's going to be used, are parts still pretty available? Thanks.