Beveling Problems

[Aggiebraider]

Howdy Everyone,

So I finally got a lace cutter and it is one made by Wayne Jueschke. I also bought a very nice hide of 5/7 latigo that i started cutting into lace this week. It took me a little bit to finally get a feel for it and stop cutting the lace in half, but I am still having some problems. I marked out this hide into a couple different circles because there was one very large area that was all good and a few places that I had to cut around, so on the largest part I cut it down to 1/2" with my draw gauge and then split it from there. The other places I cut the circles out and cut the lace off the rounds with ok success. I figured out that if I wet the hide string some before trying to split or bevel it things worked better, but one question I had was whether or not I should have stretched the string some after wetting it to make it straighter through the curves.

Once I got it to the width I wanted, I tried to split it as best I could to about half of the width. This really isnt as easy as I thought because this type of splitter relies on the tension of the spring coil to keep the blade down, and if the string is too thick, it wont ride down as far and keep the split even. I know that this type of cutter is not really designed for a heavy leather such as latigo, so that may be the root of most of my problems. After splitting, I beveled the flesh side corners just like you do with kangaroo, but I dont think things are quite right with my bevels. Should they go all the way to the edge of the hair side like in A in the attached picture, or stop a bit before that, leaving a bit of a straight edge like in B? I braided up a bit today for a pair of hobbles and the edges of the strands are raised just a bit (enough to not suit me). I will post pics when I am finished as I dont have a digital camera at the moment and I'll have to find one to borrow.

I braided 8 strands of 1/8" and rolled it after finishing the braiding and it did fix some of the edge problem but not all. Also, the back side of my braid is slightly larger than the front and on one side of the hobbles, it evened out when I rolled it, the other side didnt after rolling it. WIll the 8 strand braid always be square unless you use a core? Or will solving my beveling problems make it more round?

How should I go about cutting lace smaller than 1/8"? Should I just start say at 1/16th and cut that from the round or should I cut 1/8" first and then cut it again? Anytime I try to go smaller than 1/8", it just curls the string between the blade and the guard and doesnt cut anything it just compresses it. Again, this may be due to the fact that I am using latigo instead of something like kangaroo.

Sorry for the wall of text, I have just had a bunch of questions come up and had to get them out of my head.

Thanks for looking and any advice is greatly appreciated.

[KnotHead]

The bevel should be like A in your diagram.

This is what I do to cut the small lace.

I cut a wide cut first. Usually about 1/4 inch width.

I split that 1/4 inch down just a few thousandths.

I cut my my next straight 90 to just within where I need the actual finished lace before I bevel.

Now I check the thickness of my lace by feel in my fingers. If it is too thick then,

I split it one more time, a little at a time to get it where I think I will like it to be.

Now I bevel one side of the lace with a fresh blade, not the blade I used for my 90 degree cuts. It's important to have a fresh new blade every time you bevel. I know it seems to be a waste, but you'll see the difference in the cuts.

Then I bevel the other side.

It's important to have a good straight cut on both sides when you're cutting your bevels. If you have curves and stuff like that and it is not even on the hair side from the splitting, you'll end up with bad cuts and not what you want in lace.

Hope this helps some.

Brian...

[Shelly]

Howdy Everyone,

So I finally got a lace cutter and it is one made by Wayne Jueschke. I also bought a very nice hide of 5/7 latigo that i started cutting into lace this week. It took me a little bit to finally get a feel for it and stop cutting the lace in half, but I am still having some problems. I marked out this hide into a couple different circles because there was one very large area that was all good and a few places that I had to cut around, so on the largest part I cut it down to 1/2" with my draw gauge and then split it from there. The other places I cut the circles out and cut the lace off the rounds with ok success. I figured out that if I wet the hide string some before trying to split or bevel it things worked better, but one question I had was whether or not I should have stretched the string some after wetting it to make it straighter through the curves.

Once I got it to the width I wanted, I tried to split it as best I could to about half of the width. This really isnt as easy as I thought because this type of splitter relies on the tension of the spring coil to keep the blade down, and if the string is too thick, it wont ride down as far and keep the split even. I know that this type of cutter is not really designed for a heavy leather such as latigo, so that may be the root of most of my problems. After splitting, I beveled the flesh side corners just like you do with kangaroo, but I dont think things are quite right with my bevels. Should they go all the way to the edge of the hair side like in A in the attached picture, or stop a bit before that, leaving a bit of a straight edge like in B? I braided up a bit today for a pair of hobbles and the edges of the strands are raised just a bit (enough to not suit me). I will post pics when I am finished as I dont have a digital camera at the moment and I'll have to find one to borrow.

I braided 8 strands of 1/8" and rolled it after finishing the braiding and it did fix some of the edge problem but not all. Also, the back side of my braid is slightly larger than the front and on one side of the hobbles, it evened out when I rolled it, the other side didnt after rolling it. WIll the 8 strand braid always be square unless you use a core? Or will solving my beveling problems make it more round?

How should I go about cutting lace smaller than 1/8"? Should I just start say at 1/16th and cut that from the round or should I cut 1/8" first and then cut it again? Anytime I try to go smaller than 1/8", it just curls the string between the blade and the guard and doesnt cut anything it just compresses it. Again, this may be due to the fact that I am using latigo instead of something like kangaroo.

Sorry for the wall of text, I have just had a bunch of questions come up and had to get them out of my head.

Thanks for looking and any advice is greatly appreciated.

First things first - when I used to use Salz Latigo for braiding, many, many, years ago, you don't cut latigo in circles for string, as you do roohide. Latigo is best cut in a straight edge cut, off the back edge of the hide, where the leather is the best. The belly can be used for other stuff. Now, the reason I don't use latigos any longer - once you cut it down to small string, and then split it's thickness down to what is proper, you have very little strength left in the string. Braids fine, as long as you are really careful when tightening...which is still no guarantee that it won't break at a critical moment. I used it in latigo bosals, and had the air turn blue when I was tightening that last strand thru the nosebutton, to have it snap!

Next thing - latigo has a lot of oils/waxes in it, so you should not have to wet it, or stretch it, etc. I would cut 2" strips from my straight edge off the back of the hide, split down these strips to take down the thickness before starting to cut string. You will have an easier time of it if the latigo is not thicker than it is wide, because it's nature is to roll as you describe. Anything below 3/32" is pretty much asking for trouble with latigo. The only latigo I know of that is anything like the old Poach and Peterson or Salz latigos is sold by Sheridan Outfitters, in Sheridan WY. I use an Osborn 86 for splitting, but a Krebs or Keystone splitter would be excellent choices for this as well. The blades are wide enough to split wide strips down, before you start cutting your lace off the strips. Your longest strings are going to be 8 or 9 ft long doing it this way. I used a Hanson string cutter for years, sold it because there was no way to regulate the same thickness on the splitter portion of the machine, other than to keep a length of string that was the thickness I needed, and set the roller by that - a real pain! Another thing that helps is to cut the strings for width with the grain side down, then, split the strings to about the final thickness you want them, then bevel, and, sometimes, I would then level it again, just to take the 'peak' off the center of the strand.

You mention that you are wetting the hide also - don't. Leather stretches when it's wet, and latigo will already have lost tensile strength when you split it - so, the smaller the width of the strand, the worse the breakage when it's wet. If you insist on wetting it, it would need to be cased, just like casing veg tan leather for carving/tooling, or casing rawhide for cutting into strings. Anything that is too 'wet' when cutting, turns to mush, and it won't matter how sharp your injector blades are! But, you should not have to wet good latigo to begin with!

So, the reason I went to burgundy colored roohide, was mostly because it's tensile strength is so much more than latigo, and because I don't have the amount of leveling to do to a string - the less you have to remove from the back of your strings, the better... And, because of the size of a roohide, and the nature of the animal's skin, you make a circle and cut your thong from this, and your final strings from that - Sheridan Outfitters is about the only source I know that sells large hides of drum-stuffed, or 'oily' roo - every other supplier over the years has got to the point that hides are smaller and smaller, and more and more expensive! They will give you the best 'bang for your buck' in both roo and latigo...also, try to stay away from the roo skins that are chrome-tanned - the kind used in shoe/bootmaking. They are not easy to work with, and are usually pretty thin - you want the drum-stuffed because you can get a heavier hide to work, bigger, and the colors are thruout the hide, not just on the surface. The oily/waxy feel from these hides is what allows them to cut so easily as well. The 'dry' hides will dull your blades super fast, and just not cut worth a darn anyway.

Any 8 strand plait will come out square unless you use a core.

I live in Mineral Wells, TX - if you are in the area, I'd be happy to help you - just bring the materials you are working with, and I will show you what and how I work latigo string...just don't bring the hide already cut into circles, wet, etc!

Next - I purchase injector blades 1000 at a time - from American Cutting Edge, 480 Congress Park Drive, Centerville, OH, 45459 - (937)438-2390. Item number 1-015004. They run .18 cents each, so total of the invoice, with shipping, on my last order, was $194.44. These will last me for the next year or so, as I use them for my skivers as well as my string cutter.

Hope this helps...!

If you would like to see some of the work I do, as well as some of the horses we raise, train, and show (reiners), go to www.liggettenterprises.com

Edited May 19, 2010 by Shelly

[Aggiebraider]

Brian,

Thanks for clearing up the order that I should work in.

Shelly,

Thanks for all the great pointers. The only reason I was wetting the strings was because the hide seemed really dry as I am pretty sure it was chrome tanned, and it just wasnt cutting very smoothly. After I let them soak for a bit I put them in plastic bags to case some and it seemed to help things. Hopefully I am going to be able to go back home (Ohio) at some point over the summer so Ill just have to make a stop in Centerville and save money on shipping.

Are you going to the Derby this year? If so Ill try to get some stuff made up and have you take a look at what Im doing wrong.

Thanks again for the help

CW