City girl has questions about saddles....

[Hilly]

Please forgive my ignorant questions - I was raised a suburban brat, and then moved to a city. We don't have a lot of horses here, and I've only been on one a couple times in my life. I've never seen a rodeo 'cept on the tube, and have never seen any ranch work, either.

Finding leatherworker.net has given me the opportunity to see photos of a lot of different saddles made by some really talented people, and I've been enjoying just kinda window shopping.

I've never given it any thought until now, that a saddle is more than something you sit on when you're on a horse! (Duh). Can someone please tell me in layman's terms, just how many kinds of saddles there are? I know English and Western, and that's it. I wouldn't know a roping saddle from my elbow. Are the saddle trees made specifically for different uses? I have noticed that the horns on some saddles look different than others, and some look like they're wrapped in white tape.

Hilly

[Crystal]

Please forgive my ignorant questions - I was raised a suburban brat, and then moved to a city. We don't have a lot of horses here, and I've only been on one a couple times in my life. I've never seen a rodeo 'cept on the tube, and have never seen any ranch work, either.

Finding leatherworker.net has given me the opportunity to see photos of a lot of different saddles made by some really talented people, and I've been enjoying just kinda window shopping.

I've never given it any thought until now, that a saddle is more than something you sit on when you're on a horse! (Duh). Can someone please tell me in layman's terms, just how many kinds of saddles there are? I know English and Western, and that's it. I wouldn't know a roping saddle from my elbow. Are the saddle trees made specifically for different uses? I have noticed that the horns on some saddles look different than others, and some look like they're wrapped in white tape.

Hilly

Most definitely not ignorant questions - I am very interested to see the replies you get. I have had horses my entire life and can't really tell you much on the saddle end. I can tell if a saddle doesn't fit a horse "right" but I am at a loss to explain the construction aspect as to why it fits right or not. (Bars - trees - rigging) There are all different purposes - (Western)Roping, Reining, Barrel racing, Western Pleasure, Trail, Endurance, (English)Jumping, Dressage, Hunt Seat... and I am not even touching this list. I am sure you will get some very good explainations here. Do a web search for saddles and see if you can get a catalog sent to you... you can see different pictures of all different types and be able to get a visual comparison. Then stir the pot a little and bring up the topic of bits...

Crystal

[Hilly]

Most definitely not ignorant questions - I am very interested to see the replies you get. I have had horses my entire life and can't really tell you much on the saddle end. I can tell if a saddle doesn't fit a horse "right" but I am at a loss to explain the construction aspect as to why it fits right or not. (Bars - trees - rigging) There are all different purposes - (Western)Roping, Reining, Barrel racing, Western Pleasure, Trail, Endurance, (English)Jumping, Dressage, Hunt Seat... and I am not even touching this list. I am sure you will get some very good explainations here. Do a web search for saddles and see if you can get a catalog sent to you... you can see different pictures of all different types and be able to get a visual comparison. Then stir the pot a little and bring up the topic of bits...

Crystal

You know more about saddles than I do, that's for sure. "Reining", "Dressage", "Hunt"... Might as well be Greek, unless that's another type of saddle

Bits.... Hmmmmm.... I've seen straight ones, ones with a curve in the middle, and one that looked like it was 2 pieces. Then there's those things with the ball that hangs under the horses jaw.... I have no idea what they all do...

Bet them horsey guys and gals are thinking what a dope I sound like....

[YRsaddles]

Please forgive my ignorant questions - I was raised a suburban brat, and then moved to a city. We don't have a lot of horses here, and I've only been on one a couple times in my life. I've never seen a rodeo 'cept on the tube, and have never seen any ranch work, either.

Finding leatherworker.net has given me the opportunity to see photos of a lot of different saddles made by some really talented people, and I've been enjoying just kinda window shopping.

I've never given it any thought until now, that a saddle is more than something you sit on when you're on a horse! (Duh). Can someone please tell me in layman's terms, just how many kinds of saddles there are? I know English and Western, and that's it. I wouldn't know a roping saddle from my elbow. Are the saddle trees made specifically for different uses? I have noticed that the horns on some saddles look different than others, and some look like they're wrapped in white tape.

Hilly

yes the trees are designed specifically for the use..the horns that you are talking about are on a wade tree (actually a western ranch type saddle..made for all around ranch work and it is not white tape...is leather...wade horns are usually wraped with "mule hide" or latigo...in the old days it actually was mule hide and they were grey..but today they are mostly white and are really a thicker garment type leather like you would use for making aprons and such.

As far as roping saddles...it is really a loose tree classification in terms of the type of horn used which is stronger and high enough so a roper can dally the rope and typically a lot of ropers like more swell on the fork than say a trail rider might..so they can lean their thigh against it while roping. in case you are wondering swell is a term that we use..talking about how far the fork extends beyond the point where the fork is attached to the bars...wades and slick fork or A fork saddles have virtually very little swell..where as a ropers and barrel saddles can have a good bit...do a search of wade saddle and roper saddles and look at the forks on both types and you'll see what I am talking about

Dave,

Edited April 18, 2008 by YRsaddles

[David Genadek]

Hilly,

In the US there are currently over 110 different breeds represented. Each of these breeds has its own sense of fashion. Within each of the breeds there are many disciplines reining, cutting, and jumping and so on. Each discipline within each breed will have a different concept of what the saddle should do. In addition you will find different philosophies of riding in each of these disciplines.

The philosophies stem from two major schools from the past. One is called Jineta or what is referred today as balanced seat where the rider sits with their ear shoulder hip and heel in alignment. The other is Brida which was born in the jousting arena here the rider sites rigid with his legs stuck out in front. In time a third seat evolved which was a compromise of the other two which was once called the bastard seat but is more commonly referred to as Estradiota. You will see all three of these seats in each of the breeds and each of the disciplines.

There is also a debate about where on the back a rider should sit. Anatomically this question is easily answered however there is disagreement, creating even more possible designs.

If that is not enough variation for you we also have a debate of rigid trees or flexible trees, which some call treeless saddles.

English saddles have evolved from Jousting saddles and western saddles evolved from Jineta saddles.

So how many combinations are there? It is not infinite but darn close.

David Genadek

[moriver]

Rigging is also a factor to consider with the different types of saddles and their uses. Roping saddles are double rigged... girth both in the front and a rear girth also, most of the time this is a leather girth in the rear. When ropers dally and come tight (wrap the rope around the horn and get the rope tight on the steer) the saddle will come up in the rear if the steer is in front or to the side and the rear girth holds it in place so it doesn't hurt the horse. The rear girth also helps to distribute the load on the saddle when publling the steer in any direction. Ropers wrap their horns in cut up inner tube bands. This allows the rope to grip the horn instead of slipping and prevents the horn from being torn up. You simply replace rubber when needed, usually you will see some extra rubber hanging somewhere on a ropers saddle, you tend to burn up rubber quickly on fast fresh hard running steers. Trees, bars, gullets, swells and cantles are a wide open subject. There is plenty of info on the internet concerning tree construction, saddle fit and how it is achieved utilizing different gullet widths and bars, suffice it to say the saddle on a working horse has to fit correctly or the horse will suffer and won't work. All horses are not the same and neither are saddles. I'm a roper and rope horse trainer, I keep 5 different roping saddles around because I have to have a saddle that fits each horse I ride or take in to train.

[Crystal]

Wish I could figure out how to just link this...agghh.

Take a look at different horse jobs on YouTube. Might help you understand some of the reasons why there are so may different types.

Go to Youtube.com and type in these titles in the search bar:

The Thrill of Cutting

NRHA Futurity 2007

Stacy Westfall Congress Freestyle 06

(sometimes you don't need a saddle or bridle )

Andreas Helgstrand - WEG2006 Freestyle Final

Enjoy!

Crystal

[Hilly]

Thanks for the replies. I find this very interesting!

[Rod and Denise Nikkel]

Over time and around the world there have been many different designs for saddles. Right now in North America there are three main ones: English, Western and Australian. For some odd reason, we tend to see saddles in terms of trees…

The English saddle has a tree made with metal, wood and webbing. The panels under the tree are what contact the back and are stuffed to fit the horse. It has traditionally been used when you were using the horse to travel, or, as is currently the case, when the point of riding is to enjoy riding. Both hands are used on the reins and the rider spends a lot of time concentrating on their riding and the horse, either as they ride for enjoyment, jump or work to get precise movements from the horse as in dressage.

The Australian saddle was developed from the English saddle and traditionally had the same type of tree. But the Aussies have much more land than England and they used horses to move and work cattle over those distances. When working cattle you don’t necessarily have the option of going where you would prefer and your concentration is divided between the cattle and the horse, so they developed the knee rolls to give them more security in the saddle. However, since they didn’t rope cattle as North Americans did, there was no need for a horn. Lately, we have learned that there are now Australian saddles being made with a wood and rawhide tree, similar to a Western saddle, but made for their shape. The Aussies on the forum have much more knowledge about that than we do.

The Western saddle design came up from Mexico where it had been used as a “working saddle” for use with cattle. It was made of wood (four pieces – two bars, the cantle and the fork) and was often covered in rawhide. The front originally was made from the fork of a tree turned upside down so the horn was the trunk and the branches separated to attach to the two bars. Thus “fork” as a name. The horn was there for roping.

Today, Western saddles are used for many activities, and the style of the saddle often goes with those activities. The shape of the fork can be a slick fork, an A to upside down U shape but the widest part is always at the bottom of the fork, or a swell fork, where it widens out in the middle and comes back in to connect to the bars. These are made in many shapes, and the shape is basically personal preference, though there are reasons for those preferences for certain activities.

The horns can be metal (lots of different types) or wood. The wooden horns have to have a much larger neck to be strong enough to rope with compared to a metal horn. There are different styles of roping, but you can use any type of horn for any style of roping, though there are advantages and disadvantages of each depending on what you are doing. If you “tie hard and fast”, your rope is tied to the horn so when the steer hits the end everything stops. Or you can “dally”, meaning that you wrap your rope around the horn after you catch the animal and you hold it there. (Note: care is needed to avoid finger and thumb loss.) Dally ropers have the advantage of being able to let their rope slide, bringing the animal to a more gradual stop. The larger the horn diameter, the more surface area you have for the rope so the less number of dallys you need to take to hold an animal. Thus, a larger necked wooden horn has an advantage for this style of roping. If you are competing in a timed event, gradual doesn’t make you any money, so these ropers will put rubber on their horns to hold the rope faster. Ropers working on the ranch where you are trying to keep the animals gaining weight often prefer to use “mulehide” on their horns to allow the rope to slide and be gentler on the cow. (Here is a link talking about mulehide. http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?s...mp;hl=mulehide)

Most of the top of the saddle is personal preference. A “roping saddle” is just one built stout enough to take roping, though often certain fork styles predominate. All the different sizes and shapes for forks and cantles can be mixed and matched, and they don't have to have anything to do with the way it fits. Any type of fork and cantle can be made to fit any type of horse.

As for fitting you, that is the saddle maker's job and they shape the groundseat - the seat undeneath the last piece of leather you see called "the seat" - the way they feel is best to fit you and how you ride. Again, the groundseat shape and the fit for the horse are independent things.

If you are buying a saddle for pleasure riding, go for one you like the looks of. Sit in it to make sure it fits you and take it for a test ride to make sure it fits your horse. This goes for English, Western or Australian. Then enjoy riding!!

[raftert]

To add to this a roping saddle evolved from not only working the cattle but the cowboy being in the saddle 12 to18 hours a day. Over a period of time certain styles evolved from the area the cowboy was from and the conditions of the area, such as tapaderos in the southwest ( stirrup covers that protect your feet from thorns) horn styles, fork styles, ect... One thing you have to remember everything on a roping saddle has a specfic purpose, it is there for a reason for everything on the saddles.

Tim

[mciverfever]

If you want some more information about western saddles and the types, parts, and history, a good website to visit is http://www.western-saddle-guide.com . It gives a good overview on western saddles. I think you'll find it interesting. Enjoy!