Dying Basics?

[Waylayer069]

I've been working on turkish quivers and I have 4 in various states of completion. One is actually complete with the exception of a finishing product. I posted earlier about the problem I had with it because I dyed the quiver a fairly dark purple (5-6oz tooling side dyed with Eco-Flo Purple) not realizing that the Tan-Kote I was told to apply (after the dye had been applied and dried) would darken the dye so dark it appears blackish. Fortunately I only darkened the belt. The purple quiver still has to be done with something other then Tan-Kote. I just bought some Fiebing's "leather Sheen with CH-42"spray and Fiebing's "Leather Balm with Atom Wax" as an alternative to the Tan-Kote but now after reading through this forum I am wondering if I should be doing something all together different.

I haven't tooled/stamped/carved any of these quivers. Should I have cased the leather before dying anyway? Can you add dye to damp leather? How damp is too damp? It doesn't seem like it would workout well. And yet I am also reading here that some people oil their leather before applying dye?

I have also read that some recommend that the leather be cleaned before dyeing or wiped with deglazer or alcohol to remove oils that might interfere with the dyeing process. I applied dye to all my quiver parts prior to sewing them together without doing any type of prep.

I have dyed each quiver a different color. The purple one I used Eco-Flo (because I didn't realize I could mix dye to make my own colors and Fiebings doesn't offer that color) and for the other two (with dye already applied) I used Fiebing's "Leather Dye" Russet and Oxblood. People refer to 'oil' dye and 'spirit' dye, which category does Fiebing's "Leather Dye" fit in?

I applied the dyes using the daubers and am frustrated with how splotchy the dye is unless you add multiple coats to darken/even it out. I have one quiver that has not had dye applied to it.I purchased Fiebing's "Leather Dye" in Navy Blue and have dyed a few scraps. One coat of this colordye is splotchy at best with a very bright light blue and darkish black/blue hues. Two coats is too dark to tell it's a blue and (as the label warns) a coppery color appears. Can I thin this type of dye so that it goes on lighter? What other method of application can I use to get a more even color? I want to be able to apply the Navy Blue slightly lighter then I want the finished color to be so that when I apply any of the afore mentioned products I don't end up with almost black color.

How long does one wait in between the first application of dye and the second one? I've seen videos where the excess dye is wiped off but there is never any excess dye so I have stopped wiping the pieces.

Should I be considering applying dye using an airbrush? What are the in's and out's of this method and what kind of equipment do I need?

I am very frustrated and confused. Help?

Thanks,

Hilary

[JLSleather]

That's alot of ground to cover for "basic" Without seeing what you have, I don't think anyone can make a simple set of do's and don'ts for your project, but here's a couple general things.

You CAN case the leather, but it's not necessary. I've dyed veg-tanned leather with AND without moisture and been fine (I didn't add moisture so I could dye it, I just dyed it before it was completely dried from tooling).

2 things about moisture content here ... when leather is wet, it appears darker. So, if you dye the project when wet, it will appear slightly lighter when dry. On a solid color project, it may not matter. And, leather will "move" and shift with changes in moisture content, so the less times you wet it the better.

If you're buying tooling leather, you shouldn't have to use a deglazer. If you can run a damp sponge over it and the water gets in smoothly, you're fine. This may be a reason to wet it in the first place ... you'll be able to see if there is anything on the surface preventing absorption. Just damp, don't "soak".

Since you mention Tandy, I looked at their site. The "Leather Dye" shown here is spirit (alchohol) based, and is what I use. And I ALWAYS thin it with SOLVENT (though you can get the same stuff for about half the price of Tandy). Only dyes I use "full strength" are the navy blue (which is full-strength ONLY when used as a base coat for black), dark brown or chocolate for edges, and the black. The "Navy" is what I use for sky blue and water, though it's thinned ALOT. Any of these colors can be mixed for more colors (my "purple" is some red, some navy, and some solvent).

Not sure what type of oil you're talking about, either. I use only Neatsfoot or neatsfoot compound (and sparingly) and I dye BEFORE oil. Here's a tip ... the spirit dyes all contain "particles" (sediment) suspended in the mixture. This is the "pigment", and the darker the color the more pigment present. When you hear people talk about wiping or buffing the surface and getting some of the "dye" (usually the black), this is what you're wiping off ... the little suspended particles that didn't penetrate because they don't get into the fibers. Not absolutely certain without seeing your project, but I'm guessing this is the "coppery" stuff you're referring to.

When you follow the dye with the oil, it actually aids the entry of the particles (swell the fibers of the leather and "flush" in the particles). The black definitely is more "colorfast" when oiled after. I don't let the leather sit for days between coats. Example - when dyeing black, I'll dye it solid blue or green, then the black. If it's the end of my day, it won't get finished until tomorrow, but not necessary. The oil itself I let set for a whole day, as it does take a while to even out (which it will, it just isn't instant).

I personally use an airbrush, especialy for large areas, but not required. My cheap model is the Paasche VL with a small compressor and an evaporator. Whole system for about $200. I have 4 of them, and reasons for that would make this post WAY too long.

I always save the trim when I cut out a project, just for use for testing the dye color. DO NOT "assume" that the color you used last time will be identical this time. Hides are tanned with chemicals, and unless the leather and the chemical batch are identical, ... Even 2 hides ordered from the same supplier at the same time may not react quite the same, so always test on scrap FROM THE SAME HIDE AS THE PROJECT.

I'll post one more time in a minute, with an example of what I'm talking about.

[JLSleather]

THis wallet is done with Fiebing's spirit dyes (only). The sky and river are Navy, mixed about 30:1 with solvent. The "red" on the fish is red (not "dark red") and the green on the fish and the leaves is green (not "Kelly Green") mixed with dark brown and solvent. The guy's waders and the tree trunks are dark brown (thinned), just using more or less heavy applications. The "white" splash in the water is natural leather, not colored at all (no white). Little bit of thinned yellow on the fishing lure (about 10:1) and the brown spots on the fish and the guy's bait bag are [nearly] full-strength dark brown. I use this example because if I wanted to use a green lure, I could have painted this whole thing with 4 colors. Note the colors fade lighter as they become more distant.

This handbag is done with yellow, dark brown, and VERY thinned black. The main body of the bag is one piece, and the rest is odds n ends from the scrap barrel. This was the ONLY reaosn for the dark brown ... all hides will match if dark enough. The yellow was used for contrast, so the whole bag wasn't just solid DARK leather, and the misted black for accent in the rose.

These photos should open another window so you can see the photo and this text at the same time (I think). I use these two examples for this ... 1) all done with Fiebing's [spirit] leather dye; 2) shows colors mixing and blending; 3) both finished with Tan-Kote followed by Saddle-Lac; 4) no oil on either project; 5) Natural leather shows as a "color" blended into the scene, but still appears white (even with Tan-Kote).

Hope all of this is of some value for you. Any more questions just ask around here, and keep in mind that photos always help.

[ClayB]

You have asked a lot of good questions about dyes and finishes. There are lots of them out there and figuring out what works and doesn't work can take a lot of practice. Also what works for one person doesn't always work for someone else.

Fiebings makes both spirit dye and oil dye. It's been my experience that when you want to cover a large area a single color, the oil dye does a better job. Either of them can be thinned down to make lighter colors and I usually just thin them with rubbing alcohol. I've never used dye prep before coloring my leather, but JL made some good points on that.

I've started to use a lot of the eco flow dyes from Tandy and I really like them. You can dilute them with just plain water. I usually start by mixing them half with water to see what color I get on the leather. I've found that they tend to lighten up when they dry that way. Then I can add more of the diluted color if I want a darker color, or use a less diluted mixture to get a darker color. Oiling after the dye does seem to darken the colors some.

I don't color things solid black very often but recently my son asked for a plain black belt. I applied black eco flow dye straight out of the bottle to the belt strap with a dauber. It covered pretty well with one coat, really well with the second coat. I found that rubbing it after it dried took out the dull color and made it a lot "blacker". I finished it with a coat of Leather Balm with Atom Wax and it gave it a really shiny black look. I have never used that before and was a little surprised at how shiny it was but it gave the belt a really nice look. After that, I applied Skidmore's Leather Dressing to the back side, and also lightly on the front side. When it was dry, I took the cut off end (finished the same way) and held it under the water faucet to see if the color would run out but it didn't.

My point is, just try different things. Experiment with different products (on scrap) and see what works for you and gives you the results you are looking for. I know it can be frustrating, but when you find some products that work the way you want them to, you'll have a lot more fun with this.

[cstephens]

Those are a lot of the same questions i have Hilary. I think I can get the dye figured out but I have no clue which direction to go after that. I read a lot of post and it seems like there are a million different ways to finish veg tanned leather. I would just like a good source to view the different products with good descriptions of their use and application as many descriptions are vague.

Collin